A Tale of Two....Samanthas?

[FatedTitan]

So the past few days I've been pondering this thought and after discussions with Mac and others, I decided to post this on the forums in hopes that I could get some feedback and others' opinions on the matter. All comments are welcome and appreciated.

So Mac and I were discussing Origins the other day and the topic of Samantha came upon us once again. She seemed so innocent, yet evil as well. And then things began to tick in my mind. So let me just start from where I did.

I believe that within the Call of Duty Zombie universe, we have two characters named Samantha. Now before you burn me at the stake, hear me out. What evidence do I have for this.

First, we know for a fact that the Samantha on Moon is German. We hear her voice and it is specifically a German voice that has a father named Ludwig Maxis. She calls him "Papa" and he talks about how things changed once her mother died. This was not some robot/human baby. This was a real baby with two real people that was had between Maxis and his wife. She has a German accent and was raised in Germany while her father worked with Group 935.

But the Samantha we see in Origins is different. She seems to be American. She has an English accent and seems to know a lot more about what is going on than the Samantha from Moon did.

Let me stop here and say that while this does support my hypothesis, it is far from good evidence. The voice actor being unavailable is a simple explanation. So let's go deeper.

Let's begin the better evidence by starting with where Samantha is. Samantha is located within the MPD, or at least her body is. When she switches bodies with Richtofen on Moon, Maxis recognizes that Richtofen has taken the position that Samantha held. But where was her soul? What did she occupy? For a long time, we debated whether this was Agartha or the Aether. This was confirmed by Richtofen on TranZit when someone gets a power up at the beginning of a match and he screams out

"BRAAASDFAERASDLJFASDOIFUA.....*cough* *cough* *cough* Oh excuse me! Just getting used to the Aether!..."

So we see from this quote that Richtofen is occupying a position in the Aether. And since he is in the same position that Samantha was in, we know that she was in the Aether as well. So she is not in Agartha.

Now let's fast forward to Buried. If you choose to follow Maxis, you open what I have termed "Pandora's Box" for lack of a better term given in game, and press the button. Maxis has a pursuit at this moment to go to Agartha to rescue Samantha.

Now hold up. Samantha isn't in Agartha. And there's no reason that he should believe her to be there. First off, Samantha was in a position of power in the Aether, not Agartha. Not only that, but he knows that she's in Richtofen's body on Moon, not in Agartha. He helped you on Moon after the switcharoo occurred. So why does he want to go to Agartha to pursue Samantha when she is not there?

Now let's address another piece of evidence. The evidence of a daughter for Maxis. In Origins, Maxis does not believe he has a child and Richtofen seems to agree that he has no daughter, but she calls him that. Now fast forward to Moon. We can hear in the radios that not only is Samantha his daughter, but he even addresses her mother in one of the radios. So in one he has no daughter, but in another he does. This makes no sense.

So what can we do with these things? We can chalk them up to developer ignorance, but that seems unfair to the developers. Let's play with what we have for now.

Here's my hypothesis.

During Origins, Dr. Maxis was encountered by this voice that claims to be his daughter. Maxis knows this is not his daughter, but as the madness claims him, he begins to truly believe this is his daughter.

Fast forward many years later. Maxis and his wife have a daughter. Still entranced by this little girl that had called to him so long ago, he decided to name his newborn daughter Samantha.

Fast forward again. Samantha, Maxis' daughter, gets trapped within the MPD. As our O4 begin to complete the process that Richtofen has called them to, we hear her scream that something far more evil than her lies within. We then have Maxis, through electronics, direct us to bomb the earth.

A little bit further ahead, the T4 choose Maxis' side and Maxis takes over control in Richtofen's position within the Aether. Maxis states that he is going to Agartha to rescue Samantha.

Now we know that Maxis knows that Samantha, his daughter, is in Richtofen's body on Moon. So he can't be talking about her. She's not in Agartha. She's on the Moon. He should be able to just switch her soul back into her body and everything be good. But he doesn't. He wants to go to Agartha. Because the Samantha he remembered from Origins is still trapped there as far as he knows. So he's going to Agartha to search for her.

So what is the Samantha from Origins then? I think we have two hints. The first came on Moon from the Samantha we've known when she states that something far more evil lies here. I know that quote is skewed and quote experts can correct me if you so desire, but that is the gist of what she says. The second hint is seen in Origins when it says that an ancient evil was awakened. We've always thought that it was the zombies, but what if it was this Samantha. What if the zombies were the "guardians" trying to stop people from releasing this Samantha into our world?

Well it's late and that's all I have for now. Please let me know what you think. I'd really appreciate some evidence that strongly contradicts this because I'm kind of half and half within me. Part of me wants to say yes, because this would explain a lot of things, but I also don't want to just be throwing this out there while there's evidence that goes against it. So let me know what you think. Thanks for reading!

FatedTitan

[DeathBringerZen]

My only reservation with this scenario would have to be Maxis going on to have a daughter, namely the German Samantha if he is laying dead on table at the beginning of Origins. How could he go on to have a child if he is merely a brain stuck inside a drone?

Also... with regards to the developers being lazy. I think they seriously miscalculated the age that Maxis would be in 1918. He looks like he is in his 60's already, yet we are to assume he then goes on to have a daughter some 12 years later!?!

There was also the sudden change of voice for Samantha during the Origins trailers. We did have the psychotic sounding Sam originally, but then it got changed.

Still a good theory though Fated.

[Slade]

Good thought provoking stuff here.

I was thinking about it the other day, and my immediate thought was.

That Origins Samanta, is Buried Maxis.

Pretty far fatched? Let me explain further ..

Once Maxis takes control, he's all like "lol, bye" and never says a word again.

Weird, why doesn't he announce the drops anymore? His quotes aren't even in the gamefiles, so Treyarch decided on purpose to silence Maxis once he becomes the allmighty thingamajig.

Did they get lazy? Did they forget? Or, maybe he's not talking anymore, because he's not there anymore.

Now we also know that Richtofen (with limited Aether power) can send our crew back in time, to correct their mistakes. And that he can change his voice to someone nearly choking to death.

So imagine what one could do, when he does have full control of the Aether.

Perhaps that someone can now go jump back and forth between time as he choses, and even manipulate his voice to full extend.

Anyway, what interests me the most is that Samantha and Maxis' goals are essentially the same. open le gateway to Agartha.

Maxis, in full control, wanted to open the gateway like he said.

But he soon realised that even while so close to the rift and with all his power, it still wasn't enough to open it. He needed moar.

So, he decided to travel back in time. Pre-Origins.

He got into WW1 Maxis' head, and manipulated himself to start digging in France.

That's how the events of Origins were created.

However, he couldn't have known that he, Maxis, would soon die.

And because Maxis died, a loop is created. [WW1 Maxis dead = no Maxis in Buried, equals the paradox Maxis and Sam never shut up about]

That would also explain why Sam get's so angry all the time when you make the slightest mistake.

Remember Maxis 'Excellent work my frien-NO YOU FOOL YOU MUST FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS!"?

And how Maxis and Sam are the only one's talking about this 'loop must be closed'

It's also interesting how throwing Drone Maxis into the light is a step of the EE.

By throwing him into the light, Maxis' life is safed = paradox solved.

Mind blown, or am I talking BS?

Anyway, food for thought, amigos.

[MegaAfroMan]

Both of these are interesting ideas, but as convoluted as this next phrase will sound, I think the simplest explanation is on that has already been posed. Time is non-linear, and Origins is a new timeline created by the interference from Samantha, Maxis and Richtofen.

With non-linear time, paradoxes don't exist, because you can never go back and change your own personal history. What actually happens is a new timeline is born identical to your own in everyway, up until the point of interference.

In that sense time is sort of split into relative time and absolute time. Absolute time is how long the zombies saga has been going on, and in our absolute time the second occurance of the year 1918, would rightly be AFTER the events of Buried because to our Aetherial overlords, that is how the succession happened. Cause and effect.

Relative time is the time as it appears in that timeline, so the date.

Absolute time can never be travelled through. You can never go back and kill your true self. Relative time can be travelled through, because regardless of how many alternate yous you go back and kill, you'll never have killed the you that would grow up to enter the time machine with the intent to kill an earlier you.

I hope it makes sense?

Anyhow, with the idea of non-linear time, then of course Maxis wouldn't have a daughter in 1918. Samantha is just a little girl in 1940, and yet with Maxis dead and in a robodrone, wouldn't that cause a paradox where he is unable to birth samantha in the first place?

No, because in absolute time our samantha is already born. She was born to a non-omnipotent german scientist Dr. Ludvig Maxis approximately 80 years prior (give or take some years).

The main catch with timetravel in non-linear time is that although you can never alter your own personal history, you can never navigate back to your own original timeline either. So our story is now based in this new altered timeline with a robo maxis, young O4, and strange american samantha, or if the cutscene held significance towards reality, then we are in WW2 some country with a Maxis in some unknown state however still German.

The only thing non-linear time does NOT explain is why our german samantha now has an american accent. If that actually matters, then it could be very possible that it is two different samanthas. Only time will tell I suppose.

[FatedTitan]

Only time will tell I suppose.

Or "Only Time Travel Will Tell" :p

[Dahniska]

I don't want to say that I agree with you entirely or disagree entirely either, but I do agree with you that "Samantha" in Origins does seem to be much different than before. New voice, new awareness of stuff and a different sense of purpose and focus. And why does this new Samantha have new voice quotes when drops appear?

The whole deal about the ancient evil that was unleashed by Richtofen's excavation work doesn't seem clearly answered by Origins, once you get into the game itself. It makes sense that the evil in question might be Samantha herself, and that perhaps this Samantha isn't the little girl we knew.

[GameChanger]

Since the story at the moment is all wibbelly-wobbelly Samantha is the anomaly, everything's open to interpretation. At this point, any so-called "theories" are us looking too deep into a tangled web, trying to find a super secret hidden message.

Personally, I think the team can work with "Alternate Timelines" next game as a reason for Origins and make people think Origins was amazingly elaborate and 10/10 writing. I'll dig up my last post about my views on the story in a sec.

[MegaAfroMan]

Something I've been wanting to do, is compare the zombies eye color to the other yellow on file for black ops 2 (nuketown), and then to the Orange for Maxis on Buried.

If the eyes match the orange moreso, then origins, would show aspects of all three aetherial overlords. Blue eyes for Richtofen, Orange eyes for Maxis, and "samantha" as the announcer.

How could this be possible? We have two different endings, but when you're dealing with all powerful aetherial beings, time isn't necessarily sequential from their point of view. It could be that BOTH endings happen, and because they are so different they create the ripped alternate timeline of origins. Since the timeline is not our Maxis and Richtofen's native timeline where their souls are contained, it couldy be that they are weaker because of it and only able to controll some of the zombies, not able to fight each other, and are unable to replace this native Samantha as the true announcer.

If their eyes truly match the yellow moreso, then that is entirely debunked as there would be no evidence of Maxis having any sort of aethereal reference, which is even more strange when you consider that of the two, he was the one that wanted to go to Agartha.

[GameChanger]

Found it. Here's two "Theories" (anything's fair game at this point) of mine that attempts to get an explanation of Origin's ending/Side Quest

I trust this is just a grand metaphor for how Samantha's mind is handling omnipotence. Her lexicon is well beyond her years as shown in Moon, but she's just a little girl. Her mind is just interpreting it as just a big game, since it's what she's familiar with.

However, Season 3 has been a disappointment in my opinion. I'll save my full explanation for another time, but storyline wise it was bad. I can understand that they wanted to start with something new in the form of the TranZit crew, but looking over the quotes for the maps makes me sad. There's SO MUCH questions laid out, but very few are answered. What was The Flesh? Why did Stu eat flesh? How can he hear Richtofen in Buried, but not the other voices? What kind of organization was Broken Arrow? How did Russ get fired, and (maybe) how was Marlton involved with it? How and why was Marlton in the Nuketown shelter? What happened to the 04 in Moon? The story at this point is a complete mess, and I doubt it'll magically be fixed in Black Ops 3's core map.

Guys, open your peepers! Don't take it as face value, look at the underlying themes of it. Isn't something... different? Maxis is the one who goes insane instead of our Ricky! The characters are... calm. Specifically speaking, Takeo is more fierce than honorable. There's so many things in Origins that contradicts the other maps, it's like someone just made it up. It somewhat follows the REAL story, but it's like a fanfiction of sorts. The question is though, who and why would they write this? The adults that know about this stuff and the dangers Element 115 presents wouldn't write out a story for fun. As described in the Ending, it's actually the work of kid(s). A child, and her imagination. What if this is all Samantha's young mind interpreting ultimate power? It's like a game where she makes the rules, but Eddie wants to play too. He's going (or maybe he already has his turn?) to get his turn soon, whether she likes it or not. Even though SaMaxis's vernacular is well beyond her years, her mind still needs to find a way to her to handle omnipotence. This is the way. While real events play out, Sam plays a make believe game where she can play out her fantasies of the O4 saving her instead of overthrowing her.

Though Homicide Automation 10 has a much better understanding of Alternato Timelines than me, I still had my own thoughts about it.

My second and prominently shorter theory is that in order for Maxis to reach his daughter, he has to go through timelines to reach Agartha. The problem with this theory is that we have no idea why she is in Agartha when back in Black Ops 1 she was fighting the Zombies with O3. What happens to her in this timeline that requires Maxis to go to alternate-reality WW1 to save her? Did Richtofen need a place for Samantha to stay out of the way while he got his well-deserved turn and just cast her being through multiple timelines? I had a post detailing how 115 had the potential to displace objects from time and space, causing weird things to happen like flashing perks and what not, and how Sam traveling through timelines makes her the "spark" so to speak. It would make so much more sense if I could link it.

[Electric Jesus]

I tend to take on an agnostic standpoint in regards to the storyline. Until you prove something, we can't declare it true. Until you disprove something, it can't be declared false.

Anyway, the answer most people feel comfortable with is supply that origins takes place in its own alternate reality. Like I said I don't necessarily believe that, but it would account for the very different Samanthas. If there was a real world Samantha and an alternate origins Samantha, then for all intents and purposes there are in fact 2 Samanthas.

But let's say origins does exist in the main timeline. Consider this. Maxis can talk to us through electronics. The only time we saw him in the flesh (sorta) was when we made the vessel for him in origins. After that, we only ever hear him through electronics. Perhaps this is because after he becomes the maxis drone, he never re-enters his human body. Part of the explanation for his seemingly impossible lifespan is that he only exists as a brain manipulating electronics for the rest of the time we know him. But how could he have a daughter naturally?

Alternatively, if maxis was finally given a body Frankenstein style, he could have inhabited the body of a person much younger than his own body. That way he could live longer than average, and theoretically go on to have a daughter.

However, doesn't maxis enter the teleporter after the origins EE? Where did he go, and how could he still be around afterwards? The players themselves activate the teleporter, which triggers the cutscene. So how did he get from wherever he went to Germany some 30 years later? I'm not sure about that.

Besides, how does one enter Agartha? Apparently maxis knows. Additionally we know that tranzit takes place shortly after the events of moon. We know this because in tranzit, richtofen is "just getting used to the aether." But still, something could have happened after moon and before tranzit.

Here's a far-fetched idea I had. We know maxis had done degree of control over the electronics on gryphon station. Maybe in order to protect them (specifically Samantha) maxis instructed the O4 to enter Agartha. I mean, they did have a readily available teleporter. He could have sent them there out of harm's way with the intent to free them later once he took control of the aether and gained the trust of a few people to help him influence the physical world. (The N4.)

Like I said, I can't come up with anything conclusive yet, but I figured I'd toss some ideas around.

[MegaAfroMan]

That could make some sense. The O4 went to Agartha, and Origins in actually their experiences in the messed up dimension incomprehensible to humans.

The only point of confusion would be how Richtofen's body, has Richtofen's soul, or a faux-Richtofen's soul.

[Electric Jesus]

Maybe it's like inception, and their subconscious image of richtofen manifests into a physical form which they perceive in origins. Each character has a different perspective in Agartha. The main 3 characters see it as a zombies situation, with which they are most familiar. Samantha projects herself as a dominant power of sorts, which is why she sees herself controlling them. Richtofen is just a projection of their view of him.

Again it's very far fetched, but I'm just tossing it around.

[Electric Jesus]

Another thing I'd like to mention regarding the possibility of maxis sending Sam to Agartha willingly after moon.

Richtofen talks about missing the O4 on tranzit. That means at some point between moon and tranzit they became unreachable to him. Most people assumed that this meant that they are dead. But wait! After pressing the button for maxis, richtofen says "if your daughter is even still alive, she has my body!" Or sonetging to that effect. This shows us that he actually doesn't know where she is or her condition. Assuming that Sam and the O3 are together, they could all very well be in Agartha.

Additionally we haven't heard from any of them since moon. In BO3 we could very well find out that they are suspened in Agartha. And we could finally, truly, actually enter Agartha and release them. Most people consider the maxis ending the more likely one for treyarch to follow, so I don't see why not. Remember that buried is the furthest forward period in time we've encountered chronologically. Treyarch cleverly cut away from the main story with origins. There's still more events that could unfold after buried as a result of the button.

[DeathBringerZen]

Richtofen talks about missing the O4 on tranzit.

It should be noted that this is only in the missing quotes in the sound files. You do not actually hear these quotes in-game.

[FatedTitan]

Another thing I'd like to mention regarding the possibility of maxis sending Sam to Agartha willingly after moon.

Richtofen talks about missing the O4 on tranzit. That means at some point between moon and tranzit they became unreachable to him. Most people assumed that this meant that they are dead. But wait! After pressing the button for maxis, richtofen says "if your daughter is even still alive, she has my body!" Or sonetging to that effect. This shows us that he actually doesn't know where she is or her condition. Assuming that Sam and the O3 are together, they could all very well be in Agartha.

Additionally we haven't heard from any of them since moon. In BO3 we could very well find out that they are suspened in Agartha. And we could finally, truly, actually enter Agartha and release them. Most people consider the maxis ending the more likely one for treyarch to follow, so I don't see why not. Remember that buried is the furthest forward period in time we've encountered chronologically. Treyarch cleverly cut away from the main story with origins. There's still more events that could unfold after buried as a result of the button.

The O4 are in an interesting position for sure. I'm not sure what to make of them. Nothing really tells us that they died, and every movie buff knows that if they don't show the death, then they aren't dead. Also, I don't think Richtofen is just going to let his body go to waste. Remember that he is in charge of the zombies now. Why would we sick them on his own body?

I don't know. I guess we'll have to find out what's going on with them next game. For now, I have no idea.

[Electric Jesus]

Only time will tell...

We've all been saying that for years. Wait until the next game. Next DLC. But if you think about it, we were saying that to ourselves after moon, and we STILL don't know where the O4 are. Hopefully treyarch actually are finished with the N4 hiatus, and we actually will learn more next game.