Too Much Maxis

[Rory 1201]

I feel that in this point in the Zombies storyline that Dr. Maxis should be dead or gone. I mean:

1.Originally some speculated he died in the Der Riese teleporter; we found out he was alive in Moon.

2.In Moon you also find out that he is shot (I think) and dies on Moon with most of Group 935.

3.Later in the Easter Egg you find out he is in the Electronics Systems; Richtofen "deletes" him.

4.Later in the map, again, Maxis comes on the intercom.  At first it appears like it's a recorded message, but he's actually "alive" (again) and goes on to BOII

5.In Buried if you do all of Richtofen's Easter Eggs he will make Maxis "cease to be"

6.The very next map, he's in a dig site in 1918, and dies yet again.

7.Maxis's brain is preserved and put into the Maxis Drone by Richtofen.

8.Maxis can also be heard in the Origins end cutscene.

 

I feel that's enough for Maxis.  As for the German Samantha that we saw on Moon though . . .

[Shooter]

Think of it this way:

 

1. Maxis is betrayed by Richtofen at Der Riese, and is teleported to a tunnel of unknown origin.

2. Maxis is teleported to Griffin Station from the tunnel to try and get Sam out. He fails, and is shot and killed.

3. After Maxis dies, he soul travels to Aether (as supported by Sam's Moon quotes, various other quotes)

4. Maxis is with Sam in Aether until Richtofen kicks Sam out and sends her to Agartha.

5. Maxis speaks through the radio to the O4 at the end of Moon through the PA system (entities in Aether can communicate via electrical equipment ala Gersch in Ascension.)

6. Earth is blown up to stop Richtofen from gaining power. Doesn't work and Maxis needs another way to try and prevent Richtofen from gaining full control of Aether.

7. Maxis, still powerless in Aether, contacts survivors to try and work for him to build the towers so he can take control of Richtofen's spot in Aether.

8. Marlton and the others build the towers to give maxis full control at the end of Buried (Richtofen's side is non-canon, if Richtofens side is chosen, Origins does not happen storywise and Richtofen rules over humanity for eternity)

9. Maxis now has unlimited power within Aether, and Richtofen is now the powerless one within Aether.

10. Maxis, using the power of Aether as Richtofen had done before, travels through time to 1918, where he had first discovered the gateway to Agartha to try and get Samanha out.

11. Maxis tries to reenter his body when he arrives in Origins, but finds himself inside his brain in a jar instead of his new transplant body and now must have the others help him open the gateway.

12. Through the events of the EE, the gateway is opened, Maxis' soul travels to Agartha/Aether, and Sam and Maxis are reunited.

13. Maxis again goes back to a point in time, but this time with Samantha by his side, yada yada yada cue the cutscene blah blah.  You get the point.

 

 

This is a dumbed down version of it, but what I'm trying to say is Maxis was in Aether the whole time lol. It does appear as if we are done with the whole story of Maxis and Samantha, in my opinion.

[Boom115]

10. Maxis, using the power of Aether as Richtofen had done before, travels through time to 1918, where he had first discovered the gateway to Agartha to try and get Samanha out.

11. Maxis tries to reenter his body when he arrives in Origins, but finds himself inside his brain in a jar instead of his new transplant body and now must have the others help him open the gateway.

This is the only part I have an issue with. I change positions on the Origins role in the story line all the time. If the very same Maxis from Buried woke up in the drone then why would he be speaking so highly of Richtofen. I think it's first dialogue is something along the lines of " I knew my friend would save me". This does not seem like the same man who just doomed an entire planet. It's a small piece to go off yes, but it just did not sit right with me. Although I do agree completely on the shared aether. This is something I have come to accept for some time.

[Shooter]

The line caught my attention as well and made me question it.

The Maxis drone is contradictory. At first he says Richtofen is his friend, but at the end he's saying he needs to be with Samantha and fix the paradox. It leads me to believe Maxis was putting on an act for Richtofen with that first line. This was 1918 Richtofen after all, who was still friends with Maxis and would be willing to help him.

[InfestLithium]

I had a small theory about the paradox within Origins some months ago that discussed the events of it. I would like to believe that the moment Agartha is opened is the same moment in which Maxis actually goes into Origins; he takes the form of the drone still but knows exactly how to fix the paradox. Of course, that's just a little thought.

[Shooter]

I had a small theory about the paradox within Origins some months ago that discussed the events of it. I would like to believe that the moment Agartha is opened is the same moment in which Maxis actually goes into Origins; he takes the form of the drone still but knows exactly how to fix the paradox. Of course, that's just a little thought.

I see what you're saying. So Maxis' doesn't actually enter the drone in Origins until after we open the gateway? So what do you think of the audio Maxis says when the drone is first built? ("The darkness is at an end blah blah what have you done? etc etc") Do you think it was a prerecorded message being played by the drone and not Maxis talking? It doesn't really seem like a pre-recorded message to me, but the drone also has audio that does sound like a pre-recorded message (like when it targets a zombie).

Damn this drone.

[InfestLithium]

I believe that when we first build the drone, that is the Maxis in Origins speaking, and not the same Maxis who gained control in the Aether yet. So here you have this Origins-esque Maxis who is "resurrected" from his former self; however, come time to open the gateway to Agartha the Maxis we've known to rise into power does go into Origins in the drone.

 

 

Finally, the darkness is at an end. I live again!

 

This quote seems to branch off from where Maxis had fallen ill from the 115 (based off Richtofen's Diary in the startup screen). I'm pretty certain that he saw the effects of 115 as 'the darkness' so he knew very well that he was succumbing to the consequences. When Richtofen removes his brain and puts it into the jar - soon going into the drone - Maxis believes that he is alive once more because the darkness a.k.a. 115 has ceased. He, however, did not realize that he was removed from his human figure and is taken aghast at what the problem seems to be. But because he is still the former Origins Maxis at that point, he still sees Richtofen as his partner.

 

Of course, that's only to presume that there are two different Maxis entities that switch upon the portal being opened.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Well supposedly origins isn't in the same timeline as other maps, so origin's story is basically rubbish., IMO. 

[InfestLithium]

Well supposedly origins isn't in the same timeline as other maps, so origin's story is basically rubbish., IMO. 

 

As much as I respect your stance, calling it rubbish is faulty. Not all of the information in Origins is incorrect. It may be an alternate timeline, but it is done that way because it was a real event distorted from the presence of Samantha. That being said, it can be inferred that the O4 never actually met in that location, and that zombies arose there. I would say to take anything prior to the 115 being mined into great consideration. As for the latter, it can still be documented as important because it is now a branched section of our timeline (whereas it used to be linear).

[Shooter]

Well supposedly origins isn't in the same timeline as other maps, so origin's story is basically rubbish., IMO. 

 

Like oil and water, Supposedly and Fact do not mix well.

 

Origin's story continues right where Buried left off, all apart of one timeline.

 

With Origins, Maxis is going back to an earlier point in the timeline to get Samantha out of Agartha. We bounce around the timeline quite a bit, but it's one timeline that we are bouncing around on.

[MegaAfroMan]

Shooter, you know that's conjecture.

I believe it's a branching timeline personally, as does at least a few others.

That allows for the maps to all be in cause-effect order, ie Buried leads to Origins, BUT Origins has no effect on maps past 1918, because at that point history branches and everything after that point will be effected by Origins, which was effected by Buried, TranZit, Moon, Der Riese, and so on.

It kind of makes a macro and micro timeline phenomenon. Absolute and relative time. Origins in relative time should be well before Buried, but in absolute time it is after Buried.

In fact, you can NOT say that Origins picks up where Buried left off, without agreeing to branching lines. If it is a single line, then point O at 1918 can NOT take place following point B at the unspecified future.

[Shooter]

So you're saying every time we go back in time a new branch is being made from the original timeline? But it's still the one timeline we're looking at with multiple branches yes? I guess that's what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying it's a traditional set timeline, it's obvious it can't be considering the backward time travel taking place. I'm no expert on the complexities of time travel and the physics behind it, so call it a branching timeline, pre-destined timeline,  whatever. Lol clearly I'm not good with the technical terms. Whatever the name is of the timeline we're dealing with is not really my concern anyways, since in the end we're following the events of the time traveler. All I know are the events occur in this specific order.

 

 

- 1918 Original Origins - Tank, Tak, and Niko never meet, Maxis brain is transferred to new younger body, Maxis and Richtofen live.

- Mid-late 1930's Maxis has a child named Samantha

- 1939 Group 935 is reformed by Maxis and Richtofen and continue working on `115

- 1945 NDU-Der Riese. Richtofen betrays Maxis and Sam, Sam gets into Aether

- Kino - Moon. Richtofen works to get Sam out of Aether and put himself in.

- World blows up at the end of Moon. Richtofen takes control of Aether, Samantha is sent to Agartha

- Green Run - Buried. New 4 build towers to give Maxis power. Maxis gains control of Aether from Richtofen.

- 1918 New Origins. Maxis travels back to the original 1918, but this time things happen differently. Tank Tak and Niko meet, Maxis brain is placed in a jar because Richtofen didn't have time to finish the operation like he did in the original 1918 Origins. Samantha is released from Agartha. This created a paradox though, since history being rewritten from 1918 would mean Maxis never gets his new body and Samantha is never born. Maxis says he fixes the paradox at the end of the EE, and the last thing we're left with is a cutscene from the 1940's.

 

It's important to note that there are two different 1918 Origins. One is the original events, and the other is us rewriting the original events by going back to a point in time in the original events and doing something different. It's exactly like Mob of the Dead when you think about.

[MegaAfroMan]

Interesting. I was uncertain myself as to whether or not an original 1918 event occured at all.

What makes you believe so?

[InfestLithium]

Interesting. I was uncertain myself as to whether or not an original 1918 event occured at all.

What makes you believe so?

 

[because I'm dying to give another answer to this although it was directed towards Shooter (who is free to kill me as he pleases).]

 

The 1918 excavation mission is more than likely set in stone regardless how much you try to flop the timeline around. As Shooter said, there are two positions that include that objective - (1) where Group 935 set themselves up in Northern France and eventually found 115 + the Ancient ruins, and (2) the organization is swarmed by the undead which brings in four unlikely soldiers to fight together and open the gateway to Agartha.

 

There is no designated evidence in any past maps that recall excavations in Northern France. We know that 115 has been available on Earth since 1908 ala Tunguska event. That alone gives us some confidence in the possibility of even unearthing Element 115 by then.

 

But I must confess in that all this hype, there is one small problem - the powers of 115. According to the Origins that we play in, Group 935 unearthed the element and used it to create machines powerful enough to captivate the entire area. Think about it: giant patrol robots, Panzer Soldats, the upbringing of the Mystery Box through discovery of 115's distortion of time and space, the Pack-a-Punch machine (yes, it is related outside game mechanics as Richtofen even goes as far as explaining the origins of it and what it can be after building it). Had the Germans harnessed 115's abilities in reality, would they have not won World War I? 

 

That leads me to think that while Group 935 did start their excavation in Northern France, the reality was that they were unsuccessful in discovering Element 115 along with the Ancient Ruins. Thus, they did not have the power to push back the Allies and lost the war in 1918. I'm positive that finding the element would lead to the same result of obtaining such vivacious power beyond their wildest dreams. Sad to say, they didn't.

 

Tl;dr: The 1918 excavation did occur, but only to a certain extent. It isn't until Samantha's existence within Agartha that the event is distorted into a new timeline and result.

[MegaAfroMan]

I just thought it more likely myself that Germany, and the world, was largely unaware of that entire ruin with WW1 going on and such, but Samantha warped things enough to lead Maxis there, and the other 3 warriors.

I mean, Samantha could have had a sunconscious influence on Maxis well before 1918, possibly even starting after the initial exposure at Tunguska. The resulting coincidence of the other three appearing, I would assume is also Samantha's doing. As much as she probably didn't care for the idea of Richtofen being involved, it was only a minor concern as she knew that this Richtofen wouldn't recognize her fully (although he makes some rather ominous quotes about that very subject) and therefore wouldn't impede her goals. She just wants to be with her Dad again. So she influenced these world leaders, Japan's Emperor, and the military leaders in USA and Russia, to send the three best zombie fighters she knew of to France to protect her father after she realized that there was something else involved in the area.

The ancient evil, which I believe may somehow be Richtofen-led zombies. Somehow, our actual O4 went back in the past of that timeline, and Richtofen chased them there, which inspired the ruins to be built and left all these ancient zombies around. I don't think they are actively controlled by a Richtofen at that time, because no matter which way you spin the story, Richtofen ends up stuck, either in Samuel's body, or the random zombie's body. Even at "full power" he still gets stuck. He just isn't equiped to control the aether.

So short version: The ruins at 1918 were never visited, and possibly didn't even exist, until the aether gods warped the timeline.

However that's how I always looked at it. If there is reason to believe that it did happen the first time around, I'd gladly take a look.

It just seems unlikely too me, as the main chamber of the ruins is dedicated to the O4, and that just wouldn't fit without some timeline warping happening. But then there would be an aether god present pre-Moon incident, and I'd think he/she would have tried harder to defend the MPD from intrusion in that event.

One could argue that the O4 statues were only there the second time around, sure, but then I have probably just as much weight in saying that the whole ruins only existed the second time around.