My plea to Treyarch - ranking and purchasable content

[Chopper]

Hey Guys,

 

I have seen a few guys and gals talking about having content as part of DLCs.  Guns and stuff.

 

I can't stress how strongly that this is a bad idea.  Zombies mode is meant to be simple.

 

Each and every game you start the same way.  There should be no way of starting with anything extra, be it via a purchased weapon or as a result of your ranking.

The point is that a brand new player, can get to rank 1.  If you start introducing different weapons for those that spend, that just goes out the window.

 

If you introduce this, you will ruin zombies for multiple people.  Unless it's done within custom matches, maybe that would be fine.

 

I have friends who out of principle would not purchase any additional content outside of map DLCs.  

If it becomes the case that a group of us can't play the same mode with the same weapons due to one or more of our crew haven't not purchased something, that's kinda screwed up.

 

I hope that not only Treyarch listen to this, but that others feel the same way.

 

Chopper.

 

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Well how about this: 

 

Extra guns:  Changes ONLY what's in your box with an equal weapon: Ex: Python for a Remington NM army, or a M27 for a galil. Nothing to make you any more OP then before, but changes it so your weapon is more "you". 

 

As for changing starter weapon, just look at origins.. Do you feel any stronger with a Mauser in your hand rather then a M1911? No you do not, and as long as one never gets a stronger weapon it's simply a matter of choosing between a boomhilda and a Mustang and Sally. 

 

Change the weapon, not how strong it is.

[lead_psychopath]

Defo agree not to bring micro dlc for zombies. But would treyarch really bring in micro dlc of weapons/classes/etc?

The only reason I think they wouldn't bring it in is because of the leaderboards. It wouldn't be fair if you could pay for better guns to use.

Having said that, who knows what they might do.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Defo agree. But would treyarch really bring in micro dlc of weapons/classes/etc?

The only reason I think they wouldn't bring it in is because of the leaderboards. It wouldn't be fair if you could pay for better guns to use.

Having said that, who knows what they might do.

Thats just it… Everyone has this crazy idea that changing which weapons you have access to will effect your gameplay 10 fold… In reality, there's not much difference between holding an Lsat and a RPD. Or a Mtar and a Tommy gun. Sure one has more point gaining ability, but the other has stronger damage. And either way, you're getting this from the box! You have no control over what you get and how good off you are. 

 

It's all about balance, and what Kind of player you are. A while ago there was a saying, a great saying:

 

"There's a zombie killer in all of us" 

 

And from that I think it doesn't matter what we have in our box, or what we start off with! Your skill shouldn't differentiate because of what you get from the box. (unless its the War machine…   then you're just screwed…)

[Lenne]

Just go back to the BO1 level, Treyarch.

That is my plea.

 

I do feel the same way, Chopper.

[MegaAfroMan]

I'm against anything that differentiates players in-game other than cosmetic changes.

Sorry Mocking, but that includes weapon swaps, because there are very few, if any TRULY equal weapons (Remmington Model Army has a slightly quicker reload speed than Python for full clips, but slower for 4 or less bullets).

Also your point of the Mauser makes no sense. Of course I don't feel stronger because EVERYONE who plays Origins will start with that Exact Same Gun.

I am however very open to taking zombie maps off of the standard MP DLC packs, and making them standalones for a cheaper price...

[Stop Mocking Me0]

But is there anything that will truly and honestly effect gameplay? No… 

 

Your telling me, that you can't get to round X with a Lsat, but are perfectly capable with the RPD? Or you can't survive with a Mtar but are totally capable of doing so with an M1927 aka Tommy gun? Or the Remington (shotgun) vs. the (i think it was) spas (the shotgun from black ops) Or the Mp5 for the Mp5k? 

 

Having a different type of the same level of gun shouldn't effect your game at all. 

 

 

The Mauser makes perfect sense… In fact you've already understood it in a sense. You start off with basically the same weapon. (say a 2 player game, of two people, yourself and chopper) You have an m1911, chopper has a Mauser… You kill the same amount of zombies with the same shoot a few times, knife, tactic… Do you feel any stronger then chopper? Does he feel any stronger then you? No.. You have equal points based on your bullet-per-zombie ratio. The only change is, come round 15 when you both decide to upgrade, he has a boomhilda, and you have a Mustang and Sally.

 

But when you look at it, by then, neither of those weapons makes a difference if one kills better then the other, which they don't, they have the same amount of effectiveness. Ones a single-zombie-lots-a-amo weapon and the other is a round-them-up-to-tear-them-down type. 

 

It's a a decision you make of what KIND of game you want to have. 

 

 

Simply put, those who can survive longer with a Mauser then a M1911, should just gather their zombie-points up (given there are both DLC weapons and in-game purchasable-via-money-you-have-in-your-bank) and get the Mauser. 

 

Now it's a whole different story if you start off with a strong weapon like the ray gun, that is OP and should not be the case. (Unless it's like the rae-blaster, a severely nerfed form of the ray gun that takes 8 hits to kill a round 1 zombie.) 

[Naitrax]

One of the most fun aspects of Zombies is the fact of weapons differentiating between maps. The fun of trying out everything, and Pack-a-Punching them all is just awesome! I am 666% against Custom Classes and changing what's in the box. The Box is a place where Treyarch can put whichever weapons they decide work on the map in, and make them fit.

 

Can you imagine having the starter guns interchangeable? You think that's cool, right? Wrong. What it would mean would be Treyarch would need to spend so much more time balancing the maps so that everything would work. Lets take Origins for example. If MockingMe had the M1911 & I had the Mauser, and we both Pack-a-Punched, who would have the better weapon? MockingMe also got PhD Flopper, so now whenever he's stuck, he'll just break out. My Boomhilda is something which can kill Panzers easily, but imagine the Mustang & Sally against them? The Panzer wouldn't stand a chance.

 

Treyarch put what they do in the Box to BALANCE the maps. Why should we make them spend more time figuring out how they can give us custom weapons, starting pistols, and therefore which perks to give us on each map to keep us from becoming unstoppable. 

 

I know you all hate admitting it, but there is a reason PhD wasn't in Black Ops 2 until the map with the different starting pistol...

[Slade]

No to changeable or buyable weaponry. 

Yes to some character customization for the non-story gamemodes like survival and grief. 

Aside from Map Packs, there should be no additional purchasable content.

 

And please, no more "Exclusive Pre-Order ONLY MP maps (which will be totally free to download for everyone after a mere month)," Activision.

I'm still furious about that one.

[Naitrax]

No to changeable or buyable weaponry. 

Yes to some character customization for the non-story gamemodes like survival and grief. 

Aside from Map Packs, there should be no additional purchasable content.

 

And please, no more "Exclusive Pre-Order ONLY MP maps (which will be totally free to download for everyone after a mere month)," Activision.

I'm still furious about that one.

 

This is completely off-topic, but please never post again (didn't mean for that to sound rude, just look at your post count and you'll understand   )

 

But I think I'd be okay with Grief customs, but I hope we go back to every map not having 6400 names and to gain some insight on them, we must sacrifice all our consoles to the devil and carve a pentagram into the flesh of our first-born son.

 

Just saying.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Actually it was in grief cellblock as well… 

 

 

And the map does nothing with weapons, look at black ops and WAW. Their weapons were consistent throughout the game, and therefore never changed. You still get new wall weapons, and the wonder weapons, and the unlocked DLC and mp-pack weapons released at the same time. So you still get the new weapons, but now you can use them on all maps you want. 

 

 

And who's to say the Mustang and Salley would even be effective against the panzer? Even if it was, my amo is as well, significantly lower then what you have. SO! Why it takes you, oh, 10 bullets to take down a panzer, and me 4, my amo-full amo ratio has actually depleted MORE then your weapon has! Meaning, I may have a fun time now, but a couple rounds later, I'm screwed begging richtofen for a max amo! And like you said, why the MAS is more powerful, it has splash damage! Without PHD (an extra 2000, or 1500 from the WF) I've got a bit of an issue on my hands… Meanwhile you and your mauser, don't have to pay 2000 points, and get a better amo distribution, but you loose the power of the MAS. 

 

It's all balanced. 

 

 

 

The same way for the box. 

 

(BTW not ALL the weapons are customizable, say about 60% of the weapons are, the other 40% are map specific and locked.) 

RPD for Lsat, it's the same amount of power. Just distributed differently. 

 

I stick by my statement saying that if obtaining a Galil over a M1927, and Lsat over an RPD, or a new model army over a python forces the map to be completely changed, then that's one HELL of a tommy gun you got there…. 

 

 

Ratio for Ratio, it's the same. 

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Actually, WaW changed weapons pretty much every map (well, they brought some new in, took some away)

 

I don't think weapons should change either. Random is more fun, less predictable.

[Chopper]

Cosmetic changes are cool.  If someone wants to spend $5 or whatever to get gold guns, diamond etc I'm fine.

 

My overall point is that no content should be exclusive which gives something extra.  Being able to purchase a deathmachine for instance, and having it on round 1.

 

Mauser versus M1911 for instance is a funny one; I could argue that either is better than the other, PAPed, depending on the situation.

I understand what Mocking is saying regarding playing style, but depending on the map and environment, a mauser or a M1911 could be more than preference, and actual advantage.

 

My ultimate nightmare is buyable wonder weapons.  I really could see that happening.

[Naitrax]

For starters, how the hell does the Galil have any relations to the M1927? They're a different class of weapons...

 

You know what? I'm not even going to argue on this. It's just not worth my time.

 

Also, please remove that post where you called me a Satanist. Do you know how offensive that is? I was simply using that as an example to show the severity of the situation.

[lead_psychopath]

That was exactly what I meant with different weapons, more wonderweapons than anything.

I totally get that the lsat and rpd, and other weapons are so similar that it really doesn't matter which one you get.

But imagine if they had micro dlc for tacticals, or the hell's retriever? It'd be chaos.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

It's still random, well…. 40% random… 

 

Plus wall weapons and dlc. 

 

 

 

I do NOT see why nobody is OK with this… The weapons are balanced, and heck I haven't even gotten into the topic of earn-able weaponry! Doing challenges and easter eggs now can result in new forms of interchangeable weapons equitable, and de-quipable via a custom class section. 

 

 

Heck this is more fair then the Multiplayer at this point! 

 

Recap: 

 

- The box is random, you have NO control over the weapons you receive from it, but you can limit and change which weapons you can receive from it.

 

-The weapons are balanced. We aren't exchanging pellet guns for thunder guns here. It's all fair. 

 

- You always have the exact same SET amount of weapons in the box, no more, no less (unless you have Ray gun M2 dlc). 

 

-With every dlc you still get: New box weapons, new wall weapons, and new custom class weapons that you can try out all you want.  

 

-This adds the ability to earn weapons for you to put in the box, they aren't any stronger either… Still balanced, just different and adds a feel of achievement and award. You can show it off as well. 

 

Starter pistols: 

 

-One weapon may be more powerful, but comes at the expense of splash damage danger and lesser amo. 

 

-Both weapons have the same range of effectiveness at the beginning, it's your choice to PAP it.

 

 

 

 

Also: Weapons do change if you can change them. If you don't trayarch sets the rules for which guns you can get in each game. A set of rules that never change. You can never get the python in buried, you can never get the war machine in MOTD. Does this mean with my system you suddenly can get these? No. It means you can get a mtar over a m1927 or a Lsat over a RPD.  It adds no more weapons in, it takes no weapons out. 

 

 

 

MATER CAN NOT BE DESTROYED, ONLY TRANSFERRED! -Maxis

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Cosmetic changes are cool.  If someone wants to spend $5 or whatever to get gold guns, diamond etc I'm fine.

 

My overall point is that no content should be exclusive which gives something extra.  Being able to purchase a deathmachine for instance, and having it on round 1.

 

Mauser versus M1911 for instance is a funny one; I could argue that either is better than the other, PAPed, depending on the situation.

I understand what Mocking is saying regarding playing style, but depending on the map and environment, a mauser or a M1911 could be more than preference, and actual advantage.

 

My ultimate nightmare is buyable wonder weapons.  I really could see that happening.

 

Two points: 

1: My guns add nothing, you don't get an extra death machine in there, you would have to trade the death machine for something exactly similar to a death machine. AND THEN the only way to get it is from the box, so weather you had a death machine or not, you could get a weapon of equal effectiveness just as easily from the box by early rounds. Just as you can in transit, mob of the dead, Origins, moon, der reise, nact, and literally every other zombies map.  

 

2: There is nothing similar to a death machine, that means it's one of the 40% random weapons assigned only to a few maps. (personally i say the death machine needs to stay a drop) 

[Naitrax]

Here's some food for thought, Mocking. Say I was a casual zombies player, who lets off steam time to time by playing zombies. I have no desire to go for high rounds, or to play super serious to rank up, but still want to be treated fairly in Public Matches. I still want to have the same experience as any other zombies player. I played a match last night where a guy showed me his really cool RPD from the box. No matter how many times I hit the box, I couldn't get that. It wasn't because of luck either. It was because he decided to equip that as a weapon, a feature which I had no clue about. I am disappointed, because it means I'd have to play lots and lots to get that gun.

 

 

This is the reason half of us don't play Multiplayer: our time is invested somewhere else.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

The randomization should probably be higher if this were to occur. More like 60-80%. The customization should be related mostly to pistols, and a few non WW that can't usually be acquired on that specific map. One of each class (aside from WW) I'd say. It's kind of a hassle to switch out so many of these anyways.

 

You also need to take into account that they need to balance out the crap weapons with the good ones to make it more of a challenge. That's the main problem I see. Picking most of your weapons would leave a very small percentage of crap weapons

 

EDIT: also, what Nai said.

[TheBSZombie]

Here's some food for thought, Mocking. Say I was a casual zombies player, who lets off steam time to time by playing zombies. I have no desire to go for high rounds, or to play super serious to rank up, but still want to be treated fairly in Public Matches. I still want to have the same experience as any other zombies player. I played a match last night where a guy showed me his really cool RPD from the box. No matter how many times I hit the box, I couldn't get that. It wasn't because of luck either. It was because he decided to equip that as a weapon, a feature which I had no clue about. I am disappointed, because it means I'd have to play lots and lots to get that gun.

 

 

This is the reason half of us don't play Multiplayer: our time is invested somewhere else.

If this guy had an rpd, you wouldn't be able to get it anyways right? Not more than one person can have it if i remember correctly...

Yea I know, not exactly what you meant but the thing is, your argument is that its not fair that this guy has a similar gun that you can't have because you didn't buy it. O well. What if that guy starts talking about this awesome easter egg he did on another map. But you can't do it because you haven't bought that map. According to you, that isn't fair. So the whole idea of dlc is not fair.

I dont see anything wrong with what mocking me is proposing.

[Naitrax]

If this guy had an rpd, you wouldn't be able to get it anyways right? Not more than one person can have it if i remember correctly...

Yea I know, not exactly what you meant but the thing is, your argument is that its not fair that this guy has a similar gun that you can't have because you didn't buy it. O well. What if that guy starts talking about this awesome easter egg he did on another map. But you can't do it because you haven't bought that map. According to you, that isn't fair. So the whole idea of dlc is not fair.

I dont see anything wrong with what mocking me is proposing.

 

Mocking is proposing a rank-up system somewhere else and it goes along with his custom box idea. You can earn certain weapons to put in the box by ranking up.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Well then you didn't pay very much attention to the information given to you at the start of the game did you, or you didn't ask him. Remember this is an Xbox one/ PS4 now… EVERYONE can talk.

 

And as well, you either need to stick with your Lsat, or play and put points into your bank until you've reached enough to purchase the RPD, put it in, and have a whale of a time. yes you have to work, but you only have to work as much as you want to. You don't have to get every different weapon. You want the RPD? Play a good few games, and it's yours.

 

We're zombie players, we know and we can deal with our points how we want, thats how one succeeds in the game. 

 

 

 

As well, 60% is not a lot, there are lets say: 

 

 

1smg, 

1 LMGs,

1 launcher,

3 pistols,

3-4 wonder weapons

0 tactical

2 snipers

0 balistics 

1 shotgun

4 rifles 

and 1 bear.

 

in the mob of the dead box.

That's a total of 17-18 weapons, lets say you have 18. 

 

divide that by 100: .18

 

multiply it by 60: 10.8- round to 11

 

Eleven weapons are your choice. They are not better choices, just different. You can not change the blunder gat, the ray gun, the death machine, or the mark 2. Meaning three more weapons are still unique to the map. The other 11 are going to be your choice. 

 

 

 

 

And I am not even going to comment on your point of "the weapons can't be exchanged crap for better"… I have expressed enough times the weapon selection is BALANCED! Not perfect. But in no way game changing.

[TheBSZombie]

Oh where I dont know about that exactly because I havent looked over it entirely. But there was an opportunity to buy weapons as a microdlc to put into the box I wouldn't see a problem with it.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Mocking is proposing a rank-up system somewhere else and it goes along with his custom box idea. You can earn certain weapons to put in the box by ranking up.

That's not how it works...

 

 

You rank up to look pro. 

 

You can earn weapons via challenges and objectives. A higher rank does not mean more weapons. 

 

You purchase the weapons with the points you have in your bank. That's why you get points in the bank.

 

Don't want to put in the effort? FInd someone who loves zombies, I'm sure he'll transfer some of his bank profit if it means that much to you. 

[ZombieOfTheDead]

And I am not even going to comment on your point of "the weapons can't be exchanged crap for better"… I have expressed enough times the weapon selection is BALANCED! Not perfect. But in no way game changing.

You just did comment on it, technically.

 

I apparently didn't look at the balancing part, however. Now that I read it, it just seems kind of... pointless to me. Continue on your merry way I guess with arguing for it as an addition, I guess.