How Black Ops 2 Could Have Been Better

[Jbird]

Hello, this is going to be a work in progress, as I will eventually be covering everything there is on zombies. I will be comparing Black Ops 1 and Black Ops 2 showing what they should have kept and what they could have changed. I will also throw in some new ideas that I think would be great. Maybe some of these things will come true in Black Ops 3 since Treyarch still has another year to make it. Also, once I finish this I might make it into a YouTube video so it can be better explained. Feel free to leave suggestions below, but I might not add them into my thread because this is what I personally would have liked to seen.

 

[member name] = credit to person for the idea

 

Perks

I have thought of some ideas for new perks, and ways to make the perks we love even better.

 

Improvements to Old Perks

Speed Cola - aim down sights faster

Stamin Up - unlimited sprint

Deadshot - remove auto aim to head (very annoying in most situations), no weapon sway, no recoil, very good hip spray accuracy, added effects of vulture aid, 4x headshot damage (is this too much?)

Mule Kick - switch weapons faster, change cost to 3000

Tombstone - keep your perks after you down (works for solo too)

 

New Perk Ideas

Dollar Dew (3000, white, looks like Vulture Aid) - triple knife speed and +10% more points

Tufbrew (2000, pink, looks like Double Tap 2) - double damage

Ammo-Matic - not an actual perk, machine where you can keep buying ammo for 10% more than wall ammo price

 

Grief

I've been playing a lot of grief lately, so I have been able to come up with some good ideas on how it could be improved because I think it's a really great idea.

 

Power Downs

First off, I think there should me no power ups, only "power downs" or negative power ups. We already have on in the game and that is the meat, but even that it's not really too useful.. If you throw it on someone maybe there's a small chance he'll go down? But anyways the power downs basically make all our normal power ups and make them effect the other team negatively instead of helping your own team.

Double Points - Half Points

Insta Kill - Enemy team does 0 weapon damage for 30 seconds

Nuke - Randomly downs someone on enemy team (doesn't work if 1 player is left)

Max Ammo - Makes all enemies lose a clip of their weapons and makes them have to reload (similar to the power up on turned)

Points - Takes 10% of each player's points on the enemy team [Delta]

Perk Bottle - Takes a random perk from each player on the enemy team [Delta, Awful Lawton]

Enemies won't know when you have pickup a power down, so they will be quite surprised. The guy who goes down from the nuke will know why he went down though, just so they don't think they died for no reason.

 

Bullets, knives and equipment hurt enemies!

I'm not too sure about this one, so maybe you guys could decide if you would like to see this.

I've already come up with a way to determine how much damage everything does, I think it's pretty balanced.

Knife - 10 damage

Ballistic knife - 15 damage

Galvaknuckles - 20 damage

Grenade/semtex - 25 damage each

Claymores - 50 damage each

Most weapons - each clip does 30 damage

LMGs/Explosives/Wonder weapons including ray guns - each clip does 100 damage

Pack a punch doubles the damage

I think this would make grief pretty interesting, but it also might ruin it so I'm not too sure about it.

Scrapped this idea because it would probably ruin grief. [TheBSZombie]

 

Grief Maps

There should definitely be more grief maps!

I do have one thing to say first.. GET RID OF BURIED GRIEF! It's not even a real grief map, there is no way to get people downed on this map at all, you just stay alive til they die, I hate playing grief like that. I want to be able to down them like I can in Cell Block. And the one buildable that would have been awesome to use on grief, the head chopper, is the one that they don't have on buried grief! So just get rid of buried grief.

Also, do not make tranzit grief. That would just be awful, WAY too big of a map. Nuketown is more of a survival map also, I couldn't see it being a grief map.

Town is an okay map for grief. The lava and galvaknuckles make it interesting, but it's still not as grief-friendly as farm or cell block.

Bus depot! Bus depot would be so amazing for grief! No perks, noobs spamming the box away, 8 players in that first room! That would probably be the best map.

Die Rise would also be fun as the trample steam and sliquifier are both very good for griefing around. You could make puddles with the slquifier right near an elevator shaft and knife them into it or launch them out the map with a trample steam. I think if the whole map was open it would be too big though, so maybe split it into two separate maps, such as the rooftop with claymores and semtex, and then the spawn area.

I hear people all the time saying they want origins grief. Like, die rise though this map should be split into two or three separate maps. Maybe one of them could have the wunderfizz only for perks. the panzers would dominate noobs in grief. Maybe we could also try out the zombie shield on this map for grief. and the maxis drone would go scout for enemy players and shoot them to slow them down and get trapped.

[Awful Lawton]

Definitely agree with everything here, being a guy with 50+s on both games myself. I actually had an idea for grief: bringing back the red perk bottles/ammos from shang/moon, to spice everything up.

[Delta]

For Negative perks:

Half Points - In the name.

Nuke - Kills all zombies, and takes between 100 and 1000 points from the enemy team and gives them to your team.

Nega-Insta Kill - Weapon damage is only 75% of what it normally is.

Nega-Max Ammo - What you said.

Nega-Points - Takes a random amount of points away from the enemy team.

Nega-Perk - Takes away a random perk.

Wildcards, white or other glow that give a random effect:

Free perk - Gives a random person a perk.

Points - Gives a random person a random amount of points.

Free gun - Gives a random person a random gun from the box (or an M1911.)

Free Pack-a-Punched gun - Like free gun, but PaP'd.

Upgrade - Upgrades a random person's gun they have in hand.

Loss - De-PaP's a random person's gun.

[TheBSZombie]

I dont think you should actually be able to directly kill enemy players, i think that is what makes the game fun. Learning how to manipulate the game so the enemy goes down by the zombies. You see an enemy camping in an area getting littlee amount of zombies, get your team to hoorde them all and bring it to them. See an enemy training zombies, get up close and personal and shoot him to slow him down. Stuff like that is what adds to the fun. If you could just kill someone with a few clips of a gun then the game would get broke super easy.

And another thing to take into account is the way health s calculated. Your health regens after 5 seconds of not taking any damage. It doesn't partially refill overtime. You can have 1 point of health left and as long as you survive for another 5 seconds you will go from one point of health back up to the original amount of health. But if you take any amount of damage before that 5 seconds the timer resets. If you could inflict damage to your opponents with one bullet, even though it would be a very miniscule amount, you could effectively make it where your opponent could never regain health. That is game breaking and can create a HUGE skill gap. Which I would personally like but would eventually kill the game.

[Jbird]

I dont think you should actually be able to directly kill enemy players, i think that is what makes the game fun. Learning how to manipulate the game so the enemy goes down by the zombies. You see an enemy camping in an area getting littlee amount of zombies, get your team to hoorde them all and bring it to them. See an enemy training zombies, get up close and personal and shoot him to slow him down. Stuff like that is what adds to the fun. If you could just kill someone with a few clips of a gun then the game would get broke super easy.

And another thing to take into account is the way health s calculated. Your health regens after 5 seconds of not taking any damage. It doesn't partially refill overtime. You can have 1 point of health left and as long as you survive for another 5 seconds you will go from one point of health back up to the original amount of health. But if you take any amount of damage before that 5 seconds the timer resets. If you could inflict damage to your opponents with one bullet, even though it would be a very miniscule amount, you could effectively make it where your opponent could never regain health. That is game breaking and can create a HUGE skill gap. Which I would personally like but would eventually kill the game.

I think youre right that's why I wanted your guys' feedback on that part of it. I think at least equipment should damage people especially claymores because they're useless in grief.

[Jbird]

UPDATE #1: Added a new "Perks" section and edited the "Grief" section. Soon to add a "Maps" section

[ThrowAmonkeyBomb]

UPDATE #1: Added a new "Perks" section and edited the "Grief" section. Soon to add a "Maps" section

sweet.Ill try and read this fully sometime dude.

(:

[DeathBringerZen]

I think better Easter Eggs and more worthwhile rewards is a must next time around.

 

Easter Eggs : They should be more puzzle orientated, and not have to rely on killing zombies. We already do that in the game when playing, so make the steps a break from the norm. They should also be capable of being completed on solo. 4 player only EE's are a poor move on 3Arcs part. Making them easier with 4 people should be enough without having to force it. I want the EE's to make sense rather than just being thrown together nonsense like the majority of them were in BO2. They should serve a proper purpose towards the storyline.

 

Rewards : The rewards should be either unique to the map, or something that you kind of cannot live without when playing that particular map. Moons reward was something that you knew made the experience easier, so it felt like it was a must. Then on CotD you got the Wunderwaffe! A weapon not available on the map via the box. These are special rewards, and BO2 should have continued the trend. Getting a power up drop in Tranzit, Perks on Die Rise and perma perks on Buried where all awful rewards that were overshadowed by in-game features. Perma perks on Buried was completely unnecessary anyway what with persistent tombstone and the ridiculously easy map. Aside from being partially forced into doing MotD and Origins, none of the EE's were worth doing, and the end-game reward for doing all the EE's is something I have not heard ANYONE use for doing a high round game. Bring back unique, must have rewards. Things that you simply cannot go high rounds without.

[LiL TS 420]

I like everything you've put in here. Especially with the power-downs/ups for grief and the effects. I especially like the extra weapon one. Lets say a teammate got down in a late round and didn't have any points to spend on the box(unlikely i know) and they got the power up for a better weapon. It also eliminates having to use money on a gun and being able to spend more points on perks.(950 goes a long way in desperate times in late rounds)

[Jbird]

I think better Easter Eggs and more worthwhile rewards is a must next time around.

 

Easter Eggs : They should be more puzzle orientated, and not have to rely on killing zombies. We already do that in the game when playing, so make the steps a break from the norm. They should also be capable of being completed on solo. 4 player only EE's are a poor move on 3Arcs part. Making them easier with 4 people should be enough without having to force it. I want the EE's to make sense rather than just being thrown together nonsense like the majority of them were in BO2. They should serve a proper purpose towards the storyline.

 

Rewards : The rewards should be either unique to the map, or something that you kind of cannot live without when playing that particular map. Moons reward was something that you knew made the experience easier, so it felt like it was a must. Then on CotD you got the Wunderwaffe! A weapon not available on the map via the box. These are special rewards, and BO2 should have continued the trend. Getting a power up drop in Tranzit, Perks on Die Rise and perma perks on Buried where all awful rewards that were overshadowed by in-game features. Perma perks on Buried was completely unnecessary anyway what with persistent tombstone and the ridiculously easy map. Aside from being partially forced into doing MotD and Origins, none of the EE's were worth doing, and the end-game reward for doing all the EE's is something I have not heard ANYONE use for doing a high round game. Bring back unique, must have rewards. Things that you simply cannot go high rounds without.

I probably won't be covering Easter Egg related stuff because it's not really my thing, but I do have to agree with you that Black Ops 1 did have better easter eggs and easter egg rewards. The Black Ops 2 easter eggs sucked and had bad rewards. Mob of the Dead is the only easter egg I like as there is only a couple steps you have to do that are out of the way, and it's cool having an end game easter egg. Origins has an end game easter egg too, but it's just too tedious to be worth it.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Improvements to Old Perks

Double Tap - revert back to double tap 1, no extra bullet damage (see new perk below)

 

That's an improvement? Why not just keep the new one, it combines the original and the damage perk you were talking about. What is the point of having two separate perks when the could just be combined? No one would buy double tap yet again. I'd hardly call that an improvement. Plus, you combined lots of perks already, so separating is weird...

 

Everything else seems pretty good to me, especially the other perk improvements.

[Jbird]

That's an improvement? Why not just keep the new one, it combines the original and the damage perk you were talking about. What is the point of having two separate perks when the could just be combined? No one would buy double tap yet again. I'd hardly call that an improvement. Plus, you combined lots of perks already, so separating is weird...

 

Everything else seems pretty good to me, especially the other perk improvements.

Double Tap 2 is overpowered, it needs to be separate in my opinion.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Double Tap 2 is overpowered, it needs to be separate in my opinion.

By that argument, combining any two perks really is OP. But really, no one will buy double tap without the damage boost given there are many other perks to choose, so it may as well never come back. The increased rate of fire doesn't make much of a difference. You shoot faster. I hardly think that's OP. It makes sense to keep it the way it is.

[The Clay Bird]

mainly I thought it was pretty good.  In general the main complaints i had were the easter eggs.  they were too intrusive, the rewards stunk for the most part, I hate the option of an EE ending the game completely, and for instance, teh Buried egg is just too damn hard (last step only of course)

[DeathBringerZen]

Double Tap 2 is overpowered, it needs to be separate in my opinion.

 

All perks are OP... that is the point of them. The original DT is so bad that hardly anyone used it... on ANY map. I would not have been too fussed if they just made a separate stopping power perk but you cannot say that DT 2.0 is OP unless you also say Jugg, Speed or Stamina is also (as well as the rest of the perks). They double up too. Double physical strength, double speed (movement & reloading) etc.

[LiL TS 420]

Since when have we ever been worried about things being OP?

[Delta]

OP > UP.

Okay, how about we make Speed Cola only reload the starting pistol faster?

Jug is now a 3 hit death.

Double Tap increases firing speed by 2%.

Flopper lets explosives only do a 2 hit damage equivalent.

Quick Revive revives half a second faster.

Mule Kick lets you hold a 3rd gun for 5 rounds.

Perks seem a bit OP compared to these don't they? Which would you rather have?

Double Tap 2 does the 2 bullets for 1 thing, and the firing speed is less than Double Tap 1.

No one used to buy Double Tap. So they offered a fix. And it worked.

It's your choice if you want to buy it or not, but it's one of my favorite perks now.

[Jbird]

I have took it into consideration and you guys are right. Double Tap 2 should stay

[Slade]

Remove all those MP-only features from my solo games, please.

Nobody wants to hear Maxis, Richtofen or Samantha moaning about towers or agartha when they're playing their own.

 

Same with traps that require the turbine.

In MP, okay I get it.

 

In Solo, that fact alone renders those traps useless.

Unless you like to waste 20 minutes running around, getting the parts, turbine and the trap, only to have your turbine break the moment you put it down.

[Jbird]

Remove all those MP-only features from my solo games, please.

Nobody wants to hear Maxis, Richtofen or Samantha moaning about towers or agartha when they're playing their own.

 

Same with traps that require the turbine.

In MP, okay I get it.

 

In Solo, that fact alone renders those traps useless.

Unless you like to waste 20 minutes running around, getting the parts, turbine and the trap, only to have your turbine break the moment you put it down.

Exactly! You should not need a buildable to power another buildable! I dislike buildables, but the turbine is the worst!

[Jbird]

UPDATE #2: a small update, just added some new perk ideas

[83457]

No zombie respawns. Once on the board it must stay on the board at its movement rate. No disappearing/appearing near you. That had really hurt the game play and realism (what little there was).

Remove tons of busywork. Maybe like a survival version of Origins where the staves are made already, in box, and upgraded by pap.

Remove pointless annoyance: elevators have a call button. But in die rise, you need a special key. So absolutely annoying, with added annoyance, for no good benefit.

Buff every buildable in Tranzit. At least don't let the turret kill the person who 'owns'it. Increase usefulness, duration. Half the frequency of denizens appearing. Pap stays open once opened. Just stop the busy work already!

Annoyance/challenge/randomness should not be required on every step of everything that you do in this game.

Wonder weapons must do 1 of 2 things and do it/them well:

Clear the path: if the ww doesn't do this, limit the chokepoints in the map.

Kill at high rounds/forever: if the ww does not do this, then make sure there are intelligent traps that do, placed in usable areas (robot feet as traps suck ass).

Either make 3 hits to die standard instead of 2, or get rid of 'zombies double swipe' and 'zombies hit you far outside of their range'.

As always, Trollarch needs to improve their 'hit detection/collision detection'; no more round 2 zombies taking 3-4 stabs (this could also be mitigated by 150% player health.

Seriously, the entire video game community mocks you for your lackluster game-making skills, at least incorporate ways to ease the pain of your bad programming, like increased health. I should die because i was trapped by zombies, not because i was double swiped from a round 3 zombie 20 behind me in another room.

Built in annoyance like mounds spitting out grenades: it won't kill you, it won't add fun, but it will kill the lone zombie (or damage it so it dies instead of respawning) while you have no ammo and next round is a panzer. See this example? That didn't add fun, or challenge, it is just a shitty thing to program in to hurt the enjoyment of the game. Please understand this.

We all had that friend growing up that thought trolling was fun. I feel like they all work for Trollarch now, confusing being an ass with adding challenge/fun.

So much to say that was simply done the worst way possible.

Look at the large robots feet: only 1 of 6 randomly lit each time equals annoying, not challenge.

Add to that that it may very well kill off your last zombie. Annoying.

You may wait several passes for the foot that you want. Annoying tedium.

You can't see well which foot is which in time to mitigate the annoyance factors stated above.

Last but not least, they don't walk from a distance, but suddenly rise out of the ground, often without enough time to get you and your last zombie properly situated.

Then, if everything works out perfectly, your zombie will drop dead for no known reason and respawn in the footprint of the robot and die.

If they simply respawned or were trapped underfoot, it would be fine, but no! Robot feet are the late game trap that kills zombies.

So why was there no project manager saying 'hey, this sucks and is really annoying', and correcting these anti-fun aspects of the game?

And then to hear Vonderhaar say cod mp maps have 3 routes: 'one on the left, one on the right, one up the middle' makes it clear how completely out of touch with any gaming community, especially the cod one, they are. They really make it seem like more mindless zombie tedium and poorly-designed mp maps will be on the way...

In the future: look at waw, mw2, ghosts for map design ideas. Burn all ideas that were attached to bo1,bo2 maps.

Zombies: look to Der Riese fit how to make maps, look at moon/origins for what not to do (as far as annoyance/busy work-origins does have some good ideas if you took away the annoyance/tedium).

In Der Riese you had to link the teleports, which meant opening up to them and hitting x then running to the main frame which made enough sense, was easy enough. Now, by Origins standards, we should have had to assemble the teleporters during a dog round only and only if it was raining, and each character could only carry one specific piece, then you would have to kill 50 zombies near it, using only the knife, which could only be bought while in last stand...see how annoyance would not have made it more fun?

Give us practical, not mindless tasks. Bring back zombie slaying over busywork.

Sorry if any of this sounds negative, just responding to the intent of the thread by stating things honestly.

Happy gaming!

P.S. A wonder weapon for each player was an overdue thing. I would love to see more of that in the future.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Remove all those MP-only features from my solo games, please.

Nobody wants to hear Maxis, Richtofen or Samantha moaning about towers or agartha when they're playing their own.

 

 

Thats likely why nuketown and MOTD were so highly praised… 

[Jbird]

No zombie respawns. Once on the board it must stay on the board at its movement rate. No disappearing/appearing near you. That had really hurt the game play and realism (what little there was).

Remove tons of busywork. Maybe like a survival version of Origins where the staves are made already, in box, and upgraded by pap.

Remove pointless annoyance: elevators have a call button. But in die rise, you need a special key. So absolutely annoying, with added annoyance, for no good benefit.

Buff every buildable in Tranzit. At least don't let the turret kill the person who 'owns'it. Increase usefulness, duration. Half the frequency of denizens appearing. Pap stays open once opened. Just stop the busy work already!

Annoyance/challenge/randomness should not be required on every step of everything that you do in this game.

Wonder weapons must do 1 of 2 things and do it/them well:

Clear the path: if the ww doesn't do this, limit the chokepoints in the map.

Kill at high rounds/forever: if the ww does not do this, then make sure there are intelligent traps that do, placed in usable areas (robot feet as traps suck ass).

Either make 3 hits to die standard instead of 2, or get rid of 'zombies double swipe' and 'zombies hit you far outside of their range'.

As always, Trollarch needs to improve their 'hit detection/collision detection'; no more round 2 zombies taking 3-4 stabs (this could also be mitigated by 150% player health.

Seriously, the entire video game community mocks you for your lackluster game-making skills, at least incorporate ways to ease the pain of your bad programming, like increased health. I should die because i was trapped by zombies, not because i was double swiped from a round 3 zombie 20 behind me in another room.

Built in annoyance like mounds spitting out grenades: it won't kill you, it won't add fun, but it will kill the lone zombie (or damage it so it dies instead of respawning) while you have no ammo and next round is a panzer. See this example? That didn't add fun, or challenge, it is just a shitty thing to program in to hurt the enjoyment of the game. Please understand this.

We all had that friend growing up that thought trolling was fun. I feel like they all work for Trollarch now, confusing being an ass with adding challenge/fun.

So much to say that was simply done the worst way possible.

Look at the large robots feet: only 1 of 6 randomly lit each time equals annoying, not challenge.

Add to that that it may very well kill off your last zombie. Annoying.

You may wait several passes for the foot that you want. Annoying tedium.

You can't see well which foot is which in time to mitigate the annoyance factors stated above.

Last but not least, they don't walk from a distance, but suddenly rise out of the ground, often without enough time to get you and your last zombie properly situated.

Then, if everything works out perfectly, your zombie will drop dead for no known reason and respawn in the footprint of the robot and die.

If they simply respawned or were trapped underfoot, it would be fine, but no! Robot feet are the late game trap that kills zombies.

So why was there no project manager saying 'hey, this sucks and is really annoying', and correcting these anti-fun aspects of the game?

And then to hear Vonderhaar say cod mp maps have 3 routes: 'one on the left, one on the right, one up the middle' makes it clear how completely out of touch with any gaming community, especially the cod one, they are. They really make it seem like more mindless zombie tedium and poorly-designed mp maps will be on the way...

In the future: look at waw, mw2, ghosts for map design ideas. Burn all ideas that were attached to bo1,bo2 maps.

Zombies: look to Der Riese fit how to make maps, look at moon/origins for what not to do (as far as annoyance/busy work-origins does have some good ideas if you took away the annoyance/tedium).

In Der Riese you had to link the teleports, which meant opening up to them and hitting x then running to the main frame which made enough sense, was easy enough. Now, by Origins standards, we should have had to assemble the teleporters during a dog round only and only if it was raining, and each character could only carry one specific piece, then you would have to kill 50 zombies near it, using only the knife, which could only be bought while in last stand...see how annoyance would not have made it more fun?

Give us practical, not mindless tasks. Bring back zombie slaying over busywork.

Sorry if any of this sounds negative, just responding to the intent of the thread by stating things honestly.

Happy gaming!

P.S. A wonder weapon for each player was an overdue thing. I would love to see more of that in the future.

Zombies should respawn if you go too far away from them. There is way to prevent this on black ops 1, but this feature was only added on Call of the Dead and after. If zombies are damaged, they will not respawn. On Black Ops 2, it works almost the opposite of this; if they are damaged, they will not only despawn but they won't respawn back so you can't leave a crawler like you could on Black Ops 1.

 

Exactly, they should have survival versions of EVERY map, not just Tranzit. I hate all the stuff you have to do to set up. And then once you're all set up, there's no challenge because you have everything, so the whole game gets tedious.

 

I also dislike how you have to wait for elevators on Die Rise. They should have a hold x button like the Five elevators. They tried using the buildables feature too much, you shouldn't have to have a key for it to work.

 

Tranzit buildables did suck badly. There use to be a glitch to make buildables invincible, and even then they were still pretty bad. And this is is the WORST map to Pack a Punch on. Half the time you get there after you placed the turbine and it's already closed. Tranzit was just a cluster of terrible ideas combined.

 

I kinda like weapons like the sliquifier where it doesn't kill all the zombies in a path immediately like a thundergun would, but instead if you know how to use it, it can be even more helpful than one of those wonder weapons. Both are great though.

 

I don't understand why they had to patch the sliquifier to not kill after round 100. The Paralyzer only kills to round 70 I believe. And 2 of the "ultimates staves" aren't even usable in high rounds. It's ridiculous, if you make a wonder weapon, make it kill forever, or at least do something like Mon of the Dead where the wonder weapon is more for support while you use the traps to kill.

 

I've gotten use to zombie double swipes, and they usually don't bother me anymore. But there is perma-jug which is 4 hits until you down, but I know this is probably not what you are looking for.

 

Knifing in Black Ops 2 is terrible, especially when they are behind barriers.

 

They should have never added the technique that makes zombies die out and start the next round if they are damaged, Like I said above, it was the opposite in Black Ops 1. Why did you have to change it Treyarch? FailFish

 

Everything on Black Ops 2 is just annoying, not challenging.

 

Der Riese was a perfectly made map, yet they have never designed a map quite like it. It had a triangular design that just worked so well. Moon was so annoying because after the power room it is just all one path and especially the labs with those annoying teleporting crawlers. The regular crawlers are annoying enough, but they you have to make them teleport?! And plus you have those tiny hallways where you get the suits in that you always get stuck in. I don't think Origins' design was that bad, it was just the things on the map that made it bad, like the mud and the panzers.

 

I like your comparison to Der Riese and Origins. I hope Treyarch sees that.

 

This is exactly how you should respond, I thank you for long and thoughtful response

[strett]

Some nice ideas in there jbird.

I like it