Simplicity or Complexity?

[Mr. Jay]

Simplicity or Complexity?

There are two types of maps on BO2, and they differ in how you approach the map.

Maps like Town, Farm, Die Rise, Buried, and Nuketown stress simplicity. With or without the bank, not much strategies are involved for setting up. Most of these maps take the first few rounds to complete your long run set up.

Maps like Tranzit, MOTD, and Origins are more complex. For the first 10-15 rounds you are trying to maximize points and get to your errands. Easily into the twenties there are many things to do and much running around.

The latter maps are more fun for me initially, but I shy away from those once I reach my goals. The constant setting up take too much time away from the gaming fun for me.

The former present a little more replayability for me. I often hop on for a quick game of Town not having to worry about wasting the first hour perfecting the ideal set up.

Although I enjoy BO1 maps far more, and the complex maps show more resemblance, maps like Town and Die Rise will always be higher on my list than Tranzit or Origins.

Maps are Tranzit and Buried are beautifully constructed, but poorly designed. If you have ever camped with the paralyser past round 40 you would vouch not to touch the map again ever. It would be much better had they made it more of a "run your separate trains" type of map. Tranzit is just too big, too time consuming, and too plain.

I understand some of the "side quests" are optional, but some play importance in the long run. Trying to to feed dogs on round 15 is not ideal, and better suited for early rounds. Side quests such as the redeemer and gold spork are well designed, giving you extra incentives in the teen rounds after your initial set up.

Which maps do you prefer? Do you agree with my assessments? Do you rather I post another stupid humorous nonsense?

Thanks for reading, enjoy your Thursday.

[MegaAfroMan]

I've never lasted past 50, and I rarely give many attempts to do so.

I prefer complex objective based maps much more than simpler. Although in that note, I like MotD and Origins FAR more than Buried and TranZit when it comes to this.

I could see MotD and Origins objectives maybe getting boring after doing them so many times, and just wanting an easy quick game.

TranZit and Buried's objectives are almost instantly annoying and tedious for me.

I think it becomes a mix between map design and how much the objectives play a role in the overall game.

If they don't do enough for a reward, then they're pointless. If it is too much, it's offputting for those who don't like objectives due to various reasons.

I think the ideal solution would be objective based "story" maps, and then tweaks for a survival gamemode for the same map. Buildables are already built and must be bought, wonderweapon upgrades with Packapunch. Tactical rewards are purchased, and so on.

[nayrcraig]

Personally I prefer the more complex maps but I do so for a rather different reason to most  I'd image

 

To help explain my opinion I fist want to say that I don't like the idea of keeping a crawler or zombie to buy perks or hit the box, by that I mean I love running about mid round doing this sort of stuff. I understand that it is obviously not efficient in terms of minimizing downs or even getting to high rounds but I find it much more enjoyable to have a sense of danger and fighting my way across the map to do these sort of things.

 

I also hear a lot of people talking about getting "Set up" for a high round the fastest way, working out the best route to take and the order they must do each thing in. while I can see the appeal and usefulness of that I can't stand the idea myself.

 

I had a friend I played with for a while who took this to extremes and would insist that we couldn't pick up a nuke until it flashed every time so we would get the most points and many thing like that and if you didn't do it perfectly he would start to get really annoyed. I don't play with him much anymore.

 

I find that having everything I need for the rest of the game on round 9 for example make the rest of the game very tedious as it then come to simply training or camping it out as long as possible, of course I understand that these tactics are essential for a high round run I want to avoid that for as long as possible, so I can run around the map doing different things until it gets to the rounds where training zombies in the best location is the only practical option left and at that point I do enjoy it and regard myself as being fairly good at it.

 

This enjoyment of the frantic early stages of most games, getting my guns and perks, is why I enjoy the more complex maps as it mean I have more objectives to complete and I can spend longer running around doing different stuff. I will find myself filling the boxes in origins and when I claim my reward I very rarely use it but I will till try to fill the boxes most games I play. If I'm playing solo I'll go out of my way to build all the staffs even if I am only planning on using one.

 

TL/DR: I suppose it really come down to what you consider to be fun, whether that is getting to high rounds or just getting some epic clutch moments while running around the map trying to complete different objectives. I find the later more fun and thus I find the complex maps much more enjoyable. I also enjoy going for high rounds but even then I prefer to make these attempts on a more complex map where it might have been easier or faster to do so on a simpler map.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

No no no… 

You must address ALL points of gameplay… 

 

 

Nact; Simplistic

verruct: Simplistic

Shi no numa: Not very, yet still simplistic. 

Der Reise: Good! 

 

Kino: Bit simplistic, but fun

Five: Simple, yet difficult and tight-spaced, so it makes up for it. 

Accension: Good

COTD: Good

Shangri la: Deadly, but still good if you got the right people. 

Moon: PERFECT, evenly spaced environment, nothing tedious, just absolutely brilliant. Bit glitchy but still so much fun! 

 

Nuketown: Simplistic, yet difficult 

Tranzit: Actually simplistic, just very big and unevenly spaced. 

town: Good

farm: Simplistic

bus depot: Meh… MENT to be simplistic

Die rise: Very good: Evenly spaced things, new weapons from the walls. Generally pleasant. 

MOTD: Bit complex, yet still enjoyable. 

Buried: UNEVENLY spaced complexity, but still fun. 

Origins: Complex, and evenly spaced, but VERY tedious… 

[MegaAfroMan]

In terms of complexity vs simplicity I don't see what you're basing most of your opinions off of.

Nacht: Simplistic

Verruckt: Simple-Complex (only due to the start split.)

Shi no Numa: Simplistic (shifting perks does not make it complex)

Der Riese: Simple-Complex (the pack a punch unlock, is rather signficant)

Kino Der Toten: Simplistic

FIVE: Simple-Complex (Buildable traps and pack a punch unlock)

Ascension: Simple-Complex (pack a punch unlock, and perk guarding from monkeys)

Call of the Dead: Simple-Complex (George Romero objective, and EE for Wunderwaffe drop)

Shangri-La: Simple-Complex (Pack a punch unlock, and EE for permaperks)

Moon: Complex-Simple (Hacker, No Mans Land, EE)

Nuketown: Simplistic

TranZit: Complex-Simple (buildables, Pack a punch unlock, bank unlock)

-- All TranZit Sub Maps are Simplistic

Die Rise: Simple-Complex (Buildables)

Mob of the Dead: Complex (Mutliple secret objectives, Pack a punch unlock, buildables)

Buried: Complex (Multiple buildables, The Big Guy)

Origins: Complex (Multiple major objectives, pack a punch unlock, crazy place unlock, buildables)

That is my most objective analysis of maps on a scale of simple, simple-complex, complex-simple, and complex.

The general tune of Black Ops was Simple-Complex.

I do not care for any of the basic Simplistic maps, more of my favorites reside on the complex side.

However this is just an evaluation of their complexity. Not quality. I felt that Buried was trash, yet Die Rise was wonderful, even though Buried is Complex and Die Rise is Simple-Complex.

[Rissole25]

I like a mix of both. Have half the maps be simple, while the other half complex. There's a map for everybody, and would hopefully appeal to everybody. Nuketown is kinda like my getaway map when I cant be bothered dealing with everything. It's just simple.

There's kinda four ways to class a map. Simple or Complex, than Easy or Hard. That's Simple/Easy, Simple/Hard, Complex/Easy and Complex/Hard. Out of the 16 maps, what maps would appear in which?

Sorta related question, but is there middle ground? Can you have a Simple & Complex map, somewhere in the middle?

[MegaAfroMan]

I've given that question a lot of thought, and no, I don't think you can.

In order to make a complex map feel rewarding, there needs to be great rewards for completing objectives.

Requiring the completion of complex objectives to aquire the ideal setup is exactly what makes a map not simple.

In order to be simple, the best set up needs to be quick (relatively) and easy. If both a quick setup and a complex reward setup were in a map, then it would devalue the complex setup. Because unless it is much better, why would you bother with something harder if you can get something just as good a lot easier? However if it is made to be worth the extra effort then the easy set up is no longer as "ideal" as the complex set up.

You can't truly have one without the other.

Moon was probably the simplest Complex map on my list, because the Hacker was the main complicator. And while it was much better to have the hacker, the cons were minimal to obtaining it. Likewise if you really didn't want it, you wouldn't be significantly worse off.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Moon was the perfect mix of simple and complex. 

 

Mainly because you had the choice: Take the hacker and open an entire different plane of limits and ables, or keep the helmet and play a pretty basic game. The atmosphere was also amazing, what with the odd noise, low gravity, and general look of it, you REALLY felt like you were on the moon, something no other game I've ever played made me feel like.  WHY NO ONE HAS MADE MULTIPLAYER MAPS WITH THOSE PHYSICS I HAVE NO IDEA!  But back on topic: 

 

You have no choice over the complexity of the maps in any BO2 map, save buried and Die rise. 

 

Origins: You're way too focused to do the easter egg, it's just inevitable… 

MOTD: Basically was the same slightly complex game every time, over and over. 

Nuketown: You have no control over which perks drop, or when. The complexity and difficulty of the game depends on the arrival of Jugg. 

Tranzit: Dear god. They give you such an illusion of control over this map, but in reality there is none, you will always end up either taking the bus, or trying your hand at the lamps. Either way, the map generally maintains the same complexity no mater where you end up… 

 

 

Shangri la: You could choose which path you took to the power, where to go from there, perks spawn in randomized places. And if you chose to do the easter egg things got a whole lot more complicated, But that's an easter egg we won't count that. Other then that, not much control over the complexity. 

COTD: You had all the control here, what doors you open, when you hit george, what paths you took to the box, jug, and other what nots, it was all under your control how complex your situation was. 

[MegaAfroMan]

I disagree. I've played into mid 40's on Origins without doing any EE steps.

In fact, NOT touching the crystals actually opens up a really nice quick survival area.

It isn't inevitable. I almost NEVER touch the One inch Punch, or the Beacons, and I alone, build and upgrade only one staff. Two at most.

I think you're misusing the term complexity. Just because perks change, or the layout makes spawns hard to control, doesn't make the map complex.

Complexity comes, at least for the sake of this thread as defined by myself, and as it appears, Nayrc and Rissole possibly Jay but who cares about him, all agree with my definition.

A complex map has numerous additional OBJECTIVES.

A complicated situation could be created on ANY map. You can't base it on that. You have to base it on essentially the number of different features present on the map that the player needs to, or can, interact with.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Bit harsh to J…. He did make the thread… 

 

Also yeah, I'm defining complexity as "things to do" rather then objectives. Which also doesn't make sense. What I mean to say is I'm basing my list of complexity on how much one can interact compared to how difficult it is to survive. How generally it contorts the mind and effects on mental stamina. "how important is it for me to buy this?" "What happens if I go this way?" Holy shit is this part of the east… Nope, barrier glitch" 

[Chopper]

I've always been a choice kinda guy.  Pro choice that is.

 

I think that everyone who has responded in here ultimately touches on choice.  As Mega said, you can choose to do what you like on a map such as Origins.

People did 50 first day solo before even discovering the staffs.

 

I do not like being put in a position where my choice negatively affects gameplay.  There is a world of difference for instance in choosing not to use the box for a game, against choosing to not build a staff.  Make maps complex for sure, but after you have performed complex tasks to gain something, please don't make me choose to do the same every game I play.

 

I feel like a broken record, but with all the arguments I have seen around the new game, BO vs BO2, EEs vs Objectives, I have yet to see a good reason to not allow each individual player a choice of how they will play a map, with no restrictions if they decide to not perform a 30 minute set of steps just to get 4 wonder weapons in a map.  Once I have done it, let me choice to not do all the tasks again, and have another way of gaining the reward.