What if our Four Heroes came from the Future?

[Abel]

Hi,

This is going to be a short post and I've been meaning to mention this on here for a while. 

 

I'm sure you are all aware of the cycle of events taking place before Origins- and maybe how you all were synced in Origins in the first place. The idea of 'The Loop' was mentioned briefly by the alternate Samantha (making Origins set in a parallel reality, of course) and I've been looking around and I don't see much talk of it. With Zombies in mind, this is really the only aspect of the storyline I talk about, really. By a paradox being rewritten it only comes with consequences. First being in Tranzit where we see an abandoned World War II Bunker; Nacht Der Un Toten. The second in Tranzit we find the FIVE staircases through the window next to the Pack'a'Punch. 

 

This is all due to rewriting the cycle of events, and this is what we done in Black Ops [unknowingly]. All maps are in the exact order they should be and there is no 'secret' chronological order, now this is the reason why you might think all the maps/events take place in the same reality, in which it does [in Black Ops II: Tranzit], but that's a common mistake since we are seeing the Bunker in Tranzit. When you normally break a paradox, time usually becomes one, as in. Everything in that one reality- past or present- occurs at the same time. 

 

This was why they were showing you NIGHT & FIVE in the same reality as Tranzit, because it occurs in the same reality. Why it's on fire is somewhat simple, and the obvious answer is because of the events of Moon. However, Moon did not just account for one reality, Maxis was planning on striking the source, let me explain. The bubble-of-time [what I like to call it] surrounding the Earth at that time during Moon was originally set to hit places in the same time as Colorado...or wherever Green Run is. But since the Origins, we travel through the vortex which injects us into the Loop once again, to correct time and mend the loop. Now that Origins is subsequently a part of this loop it would mean that we achieved Maxis' plan, to strike the source. And there and behold; Paris is on Fire.

 

 

But things become even more complicated. It was sheer destiny for Origins to become part of the cycle of events, and it will be dangerous to go back there, but I'm glad we won't again. The loop in Black Ops, of course acts as a constant, and the only time that the rockets hit Origins was its last. Again it only happened during the first seconds of entering the vortex, since we won't be visiting the moon again for sure. All the events are chronological from Origins to Moon. However, this time I think we'll be entering our damnation. More on that later...

 

As for the title of my discussion, let us dwell. What if our Four Heroes came from the Future? There's something I forgot to add about the paradox which you should by now know already. Forgetting World at War; from Shi No Numa to Der Reise- because I think they just eventually died, like in the music video. Think about the future of the Zombies storyline. By breaking the cycle, rewriting a paradox, the final consequence comes swift. Everything you knew from before inevitably becomes erased, and a new world with new people emerge. No more Tank Dempsey's, no more Nikolai's and no more Richtoven's [And that Takeo guy]. Although they may still be there, but their story isn't. Although you may not approve with what I'm going to say, just go along with the ride. The idea itself has been spoken of since we all figured out this whole time paradox situation. In this new world, our old characters may be reborn or still awake to tell the tale [The Tale of the Zombies Storyline] why civilization ended up here and why there are giant mechanical men stood still like statues situated on our planet, and most important. Why the dead become un-dead? Nobody can know, except for our four heroes. However the only way for our characters to tell this tale is for a part of their minds to be unlocked. Of course, nobody knows yet when or how they will come to it, nor do they have any knowledge that it will. They're just normal people. 

I'm going off track here...

 

The bottom line is; One part of the characters mind must unlock to reinstate their knowledge of their previous life. This would be their new beginning, rendering them not from the past, but born from the Future. Wherever that story goes I could go into it, but at the same time I don't want to somewhat pretentious to the members on this forum. But I do want to say something about Tank Dempsey. When all this happens, our characters are born with new identities. Something Treyarch was trying to hint at in the original cinematic for Origins. Thomas Dempsey is the only character to speak in third person, and he's not speaking to you in a sense. He is speaking to man who brought him there in the first place. I like to call him The Aether Projectionist, because as said in Kino', we are meant to "Return through Aether Projectionist"- instead of "Return through Aether".  And this is the exact man who injects us into the Origins.

 

Then we have the wall-writings which were written directly from The Darkness. The place we have to enter once entering the rabbit hole [the vortex in Origins]. 

 

Figure them out yourselves. There are wall writings in Der Reise and Kino Der Toten that set them apart from eachother, and I think i know what happens. 

Der Reise is the only event where the idea of "tEddy is a Liar" is set in stone. The same goes for Kino Der Toten for "Return through Aether Projection-ist".

But what if this what needs to happen in order to Break the Cycle?

This is the reason why Kino was set back for Black Ops 1, because it doesn't officially take part in what we call The Darkness. The idea of something happening to Eddy in the end was set in stone when Samantha in Origins said "Edward, you know what must be done." Like Arlington in Mob of the Dead, the same actor who played a guy called Teddy in Momentum (film), had friends with a person with chronic memory loss since his wife died to due to shock, was the same person who indeed murdered his wife. During the whole film he tattooed Teddy is a liar on the palm of his hands to remind him. So throughout the film Momentum he had trouble trusting Teddy. In Mob of the Dead, Albert Arlington was murdered by his three associates because they blamed him for his failures and murdered him, but. In order to break the cycle, Arlington must kill them first.

 

This is exactly what is happening right now in the new Der Reise, but it's the opposite. Eddy is the liar, he knows the consequences and he must die in time. If doesn't then we will inevitably time-jump into Kino Der Toten and we will have to Return through Aether Projectionist. And everything will restart again, and the cycle will continue and The Darkness will spread into Ascension and so onto Moon.

 

 

 

Thanks for reading this, I'll be glad if this sort of helps you. If you're confused about the whole Darkness thing, just remember the wall-writings they wrote that talk about it.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Abel

[Matuzz]

I don't believe our characters come out of anywhere, because they are wherever, whenever.

[GRILL]

Personally, I don't think that the O4 came from the future.  The whole "Letters from the Field" documents were really convincing that they were indeed from that time, and I guess I'm kind of a purist when it comes to the storyline - I think that adding too much simply muddles it, rather then just accepting the simplicities where they are.

 

Regardless, if they did come from the future - why would those giant statues exist of them in the excavation site?  That and the "picture pieces" scattered around ORIGINS almost make for an argument that they could have been from the past, no?

[DeathBringerZen]

Looks like you just want the last word. I'm not lying at all, you're just trying too hard to prove your point. In fact you don't have any right to try and downsize everything I write on here and stamp *BENN* on it.

 

I've explained everything in my topic within reason, why and how things have been happening the way they have been... Instead of using your crap excuses, why don't you actually bother actually questioning my posts? Or if you don't mind, actually reading my post? 

 

 

So you are not basing your story on Benn's "time pocket" theory? The reason I say you are is because he is the only person I know of to use that theory... no one else, so straight of the bat you ARE basing some of your tale on his work. Then you link one of their music videos which is another part of your inspiration, so that is now TWO things you are taking inspiration from.

 

I am not trying to shit on you Abel, and if you read back both of MY replies you will see that I am simply saying that it would be nice to see your own take on things. I am also not trying to get a final word in here, and will prove that by not replying to the thread anymore, so you can reply with whatever you like and I promise not to intervene anymore.

 

I like you Abel, but you need to be more open minded to the idea that Benn did not write the storyline nor will he ever be affiliated to Treyarch. He is just a fan with a good contact... that is all. His work IS fan fiction just like anyone elses on here and should not be treated as factual.

[Abel]

Personally, I don't think that the O4 came from the future.  The whole "Letters from the Field" documents were really convincing that they were indeed from that time, and I guess I'm kind of a purist when it comes to the storyline - I think that adding too much simply muddles it, rather then just accepting the simplicities where they are.

 

Regardless, if they did come from the future - why would those giant statues exist of them in the excavation site?  That and the "picture pieces" scattered around ORIGINS almost make for an argument that they could have been from the past, no?

With Origins in mind, but I'm talking about before Origins... I should have mentioned this. At the end of the cinematic they look at eachother pointing their guns, but something in the back of their minds tell them that it's not the right thing to do. They all look to Richotoven, and Edward looks down on his hands questioning his true self. It's like as soon as they met up, they somehow were in-sync with everything that was happening around them, then they continued on and met with their destiny. Anyway my point is, that something happened to their minds in that cutscene. Like I said in my post, something in the back of their minds unlocked. And the statues, the Templar Zombies escaping from the Tomb, will have to be something that happened far in the past but in the same reality.

 

The thing is, being introduced to time travel we've been into places like Kino, Ascension, Shangri-La, Call of the Dead and Moon. And there's no logical way of answering how our characters even got into these events. However, there are ways this can be approached, for instance; Quantum Jumping, but I don't want to talk about that unless you do. I think, in short, the reason why we ended up ourselves into Ascension is because we were already there, in another reality. The same has to go for the other maps as well. But when WE aren't there, our characters die at round one. 

 

So there are reasons why you could say that our characters came from the past, Origins. Whilst there are even bigger reasons why there are different versions of them scattered around the space/time. So this makes the idea of our characters coming from the future or past is indifferent, me thinks. 

Edited May 29, 2014 by l GRILL l

[Abel]

 

Looks like you just want the last word. I'm not lying at all, you're just trying too hard to prove your point. In fact you don't have any right to try and downsize everything I write on here and stamp *BENN* on it.

 

I've explained everything in my topic within reason, why and how things have been happening the way they have been... Instead of using your crap excuses, why don't you actually bother actually questioning my posts? Or if you don't mind, actually reading my post? 

 

 

So you are not basing your story on Benn's "time pocket" theory? The reason I say you are is because he is the only person I know of to use that theory... no one else, so straight of the bat you ARE basing some of your tale on his work. Then you link one of their music videos which is another part of your inspiration, so that is now TWO things you are taking inspiration from.

 

I am not trying to shit on you Abel, and if you read back both of MY replies you will see that I am simply saying that it would be nice to see your own take on things. I am also not trying to get a final word in here, and will prove that by not replying to the thread anymore, so you can reply with whatever you like and I promise not to intervene anymore.

 

I like you Abel, but you need to be more open minded to the idea that Benn did not write the storyline nor will he ever be affiliated to Treyarch. He is just a fan with a good contact... that is all. His work IS fan fiction just like anyone elses on here and should not be treated as factual.

 

Time- Pockets have been relevant since the World at War incarnation of Nacht Der Un Toten and Verruckt. How else would the four marines be met with the writings on the wall and zombies. That's not just his theory, that's just common knowledge. This is caused due to the paradox being rewritten, the windows break and an entry point into this reality is made.

[Matuzz]

The characters can start and cease being at any given time, they can appear in any realm at anytime. For they are not physical beings nor "real".

[Abel]

The characters can start and cease being at any given time, they can appear in any realm at anytime. For they are not physical beings nor "real".

That really doesn't help...

[Matuzz]

 

The characters can start and cease being at any given time, they can appear in any realm at anytime. For they are not physical beings nor "real".

That really doesn't help...

 

That is my personal view on the matter of the storyline and maps/characters in it. They are not controlled by any rules as they are imagination of Samantha and Edward.

[Abel]

 

 

The characters can start and cease being at any given time, they can appear in any realm at anytime. For they are not physical beings nor "real".

That really doesn't help...

 

That is my personal view on the matter of the storyline and maps/characters in it. They are not controlled by any rules as they are imagination of Samantha and Edward.

 

How are they in the imagination of Samantha & Edward?

[DeathBringerZen]

Time- Pockets have been relevant since the World at War incarnation of Nacht Der Un Toten and Verruckt. How else would the four marines be met with the writings on the wall and zombies. That's not just his theory, that's just common knowledge. This is caused due to the paradox being rewritten, the windows break and an entry point into this reality is made.

 

 

Maybe common knowledge in some parts, but the time pocket "theory" is not widely accepted by everyone. Plenty of other people have come up with great interpretations of the storyline that do not feature these pockets created by the rockets hitting Earth.

 

There is also nothing in-game that suggests concretely that the time pockets are fact! Take for example your suggestions about the writing on the walls in Nacht or Verruckt. Do you not feel the writing could be put there by previous occupants who came up against and lost in their battle against zombies? It is more believable than the idea that they are messages sent through time and space to warn people.

[Black Hand Smith]

 

Time- Pockets have been relevant since the World at War incarnation of Nacht Der Un Toten and Verruckt. How else would the four marines be met with the writings on the wall and zombies. That's not just his theory, that's just common knowledge. This is caused due to the paradox being rewritten, the windows break and an entry point into this reality is made.

 

 

Maybe common knowledge in some parts, but the time pocket "theory" is not widely accepted by everyone. Plenty of other people have come up with great interpretations of the storyline that do not feature these pockets created by the rockets hitting Earth.

 

There is also nothing in-game that suggests concretely that the time pockets are fact! Take for example your suggestions about the writing on the walls in Nacht or Verruckt. Do you not feel the writing could be put there by previous occupants who came up against and lost in their battle against zombies? It is more believable than the idea that they are messages sent through time and space to warn people.

 

Time pockets are more relevant in the Maxis vs richtofen arc in Black ops 2. Each map is suffering from time distortion. A robot bus driver in the 60's is one of the things that were brought in through the rip. Then in Die Rise it's at least in the 90's. There's a 30 year Gap plus the presence of 2025 soldiers shows that everything is not where it should be. Due the fact the final missile caused the Rift to open the Closer the characters get to the rift the more distortion there is. In buried you are the closest to the Rift and a western town has materialized there. Each Time pocket required a Tower to be lit up inside so that Maxis could Harness their Energy. 

It also explains why Maxis sent the missiles in the first Place. He intended to create the Pockets. 

 

As for any time pockets in Black ops I don't think there are any. Time loops yes but not time Pockets as far as I know

[Matuzz]

 

 

 

The characters can start and cease being at any given time, they can appear in any realm at anytime. For they are not physical beings nor "real".

That really doesn't help...

 

That is my personal view on the matter of the storyline and maps/characters in it. They are not controlled by any rules as they are imagination of Samantha and Edward.

 

How are they in the imagination of Samantha & Edward?

 

Because of the Origins ending. They are  the outcome of Samanta and Edward playing.

[Abel]

 

Time- Pockets have been relevant since the World at War incarnation of Nacht Der Un Toten and Verruckt. How else would the four marines be met with the writings on the wall and zombies. That's not just his theory, that's just common knowledge. This is caused due to the paradox being rewritten, the windows break and an entry point into this reality is made.

 

 

Maybe common knowledge in some parts, but the time pocket "theory" is not widely accepted by everyone. Plenty of other people have come up with great interpretations of the storyline that do not feature these pockets created by the rockets hitting Earth.

 

There is also nothing in-game that suggests concretely that the time pockets are fact! Take for example your suggestions about the writing on the walls in Nacht or Verruckt. Do you not feel the writing could be put there by previous occupants who came up against and lost in their battle against zombies? It is more believable than the idea that they are messages sent through time and space to warn people.

 

I never said it was. And I never said that the pockets were created by the rockets hitting Earth... that's not possible. However messages being sent through space/time is not impossible when there's time travel in mind. It's like burying goods for the future and digging them back up again, except in this case there is the loop. And it isn't just to warn random people, it's to warn themselves. Like what happened in Mob of the Dead; the cycle continued and the next second they wake up without having any memory of before.

[Abel]

 

 

 

 

The characters can start and cease being at any given time, they can appear in any realm at anytime. For they are not physical beings nor "real".

That really doesn't help...

 

That is my personal view on the matter of the storyline and maps/characters in it. They are not controlled by any rules as they are imagination of Samantha and Edward.

 

How are they in the imagination of Samantha & Edward?

 

Because of the Origins ending. They are  the outcome of Samanta and Edward playing.

 

So you're saying that Samantha and Edwards imagination created the merchandise she's playing with... Right! 

[Matuzz]

 

 

 

 

 

The characters can start and cease being at any given time, they can appear in any realm at anytime. For they are not physical beings nor "real".

That really doesn't help...

 

That is my personal view on the matter of the storyline and maps/characters in it. They are not controlled by any rules as they are imagination of Samantha and Edward.

 

How are they in the imagination of Samantha & Edward?

 

Because of the Origins ending. They are  the outcome of Samanta and Edward playing.

 

So you're saying that Samantha and Edwards imagination created the merchandise she's playing with... Right! 

 

Generic toys.

[DeathBringerZen]

Time pockets are more relevant in the Maxis vs richtofen arc in Black ops 2. Each map is suffering from time distortion. A robot bus driver in the 60's is one of the things that were brought in through the rip. Then in Die Rise it's at least in the 90's. There's a 30 year Gap plus the presence of 2025 soldiers shows that everything is not where it should be. Due the fact the final missile caused the Rift to open the Closer the characters get to the rift the more distortion there is. In buried you are the closest to the Rift and a western town has materialized there. Each Time pocket required a Tower to be lit up inside so that Maxis could Harness their Energy. 

It also explains why Maxis sent the missiles in the first Place. He intended to create the Pockets. 

 

As for any time pockets in Black ops I don't think there are any. Time loops yes but not time Pockets as far as I know

 

 

Well, there is some people who believe Moon (and therefore Tranzit) are actually set in the year 2025 or thereabouts as opposed to the 60's, so the Driver is explained by that one. Then the town in Buried is partially explained in-game by quotes from Marlton that it was down to the tectonic plates shifting that moved the town there rather than it appearing via a time pocket. If Tranzit did indeed take place in 2025, then Die Rise could easily have taken place at the same time. The only thing giving it any kind of timeframe is the "est since 1996" writing which only really means that the map takes place sometime after 96, and the chinese calander gives it the date of Jan 1st I believe.

 

It is also believed that Maxis intended on destroying the Earth as he believed that he could enter Agartha via the Earths core (if you believe the hollow Earth theory), which means he did not have the intention of creating time bubbles.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

I had an idea about this a while back, where richtofen reformed the energy of the O4 into the N4. 

 

Nikolai's madness: Samule

Takeo's grumpyness: Russman

Rictofen's hatred of Tank: Misty

Richtofen's brains: Marelton

Samantha's feminine: Misty 

 

SO on and so forth, we know richtofen has power over death so why not put the O4 back on earth in bodies that don't resemble their past ones. They take the lives and memories of the real samule, misty, marelton, and russman, who died before tranzit, and put the essence of the O4 in them, changing their personalities. 

 

The reason I abandoned this idea was that in buried, richtofen appears to have abandoned the crew and is surprised to samule's arrival in the underground town. If they were really as important as his own older body, he wouldn't have forgotten them. 

[ETEl2NAL407]

I disagree with this theory entirely. Every single thought is overdone and all this does is complicate an already twisted tale. 

 

Ok, so let's say the story as it stands at face value is the equivalent of someone drawing an oval on a piece of paper and calling it a circle. Ok, I can see it's circular, but it's not a perfect circle.

 

What I just read in the OP is the equivalent of someone drawing an octagon on a piece of paper and calling it a horse. Not even close.

[mmm chocolate]

Short post?

[Abel]

I disagree with this theory entirely. Every single thought is overdone and all this does is complicate an already twisted tale. 

 

Ok, so let's say the story as it stands at face value is the equivalent of someone drawing an oval on a piece of paper and calling it a circle. Ok, I can see it's circular, but it's not a perfect circle.

 

What I just read in the OP is the equivalent of someone drawing an octagon on a piece of paper and calling it a horse. Not even close.

I agree, it's not a perfect circle and the story itself is imperfect. What would you do to change things?

[ETEl2NAL407]

I agree, it's not a perfect circle and the story itself is imperfect. What would you do to change things?

 

Nothing. Treyarch has wrapped the story, in my eyes. Even though this is a messy ending, the only reason it is that way is because of the plot holes that Treyarch could not close. Those holes, IMO, are not meant as Treyarch's way of leaving anything open. It's just a failure.

 

However, taking into consideration how messy everything was prior to the Origins ending, I applaud Treyarch for it. This was the best that even the most imaginative writer could have done with respect to closing as many plot holes as possible. Sure, the notion of it all being a children's game is more like a huge quilted blanket thrown over everything, but when you can't make the dots connect any other way, it's better to just cover it all up and let it die.

 

I hope Treyarch continues Zombies, but gives us an entirely different arc with new characters and events which will actually make sense. They can still encourage players to discover the story on their own through EE's and hidden messages, but at least have it all make sense and give more concrete evidence. The joy is not in debating theories, but uncovering the truth, I think.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

What I would do to change things? Oh ho ho… 

 

 

- Find an enemy that both sam and richtofen must fight together. 

 

-Give the O4 a good storyline of where they were in BO2. 

 

-More underground illuminati-holy shit-conspiracy theory shit. 

 

-Remove origins from the main story completely. 

 

-Add stealth into the game somehow.

 

-A map where one has the ability to swap between players. 

[Abel]

 

I agree, it's not a perfect circle and the story itself is imperfect. What would you do to change things?

 

Nothing. Treyarch has wrapped the story, in my eyes. Even though this is a messy ending, the only reason it is that way is because of the plot holes that Treyarch could not close. Those holes, IMO, are not meant as Treyarch's way of leaving anything open. It's just a failure.

 

However, taking into consideration how messy everything was prior to the Origins ending, I applaud Treyarch for it. This was the best that even the most imaginative writer could have done with respect to closing as many plot holes as possible. Sure, the notion of it all being a children's game is more like a huge quilted blanket thrown over everything, but when you can't make the dots connect any other way, it's better to just cover it all up and let it die.

 

I hope Treyarch continues Zombies, but gives us an entirely different arc with new characters and events which will actually make sense. They can still encourage players to discover the story on their own through EE's and hidden messages, but at least have it all make sense and give more concrete evidence. The joy is not in debating theories, but uncovering the truth, I think.

 

Well, there is always two sides to a coin. Maybe that Cutscene was just placed on the wrong side...

[Black Hand Smith]

Time pockets are more relevant in the Maxis vs richtofen arc in Black ops 2. Each map is suffering from time distortion. A robot bus driver in the 60's is one of the things that were brought in through the rip. Then in Die Rise it's at least in the 90's. There's a 30 year Gap plus the presence of 2025 soldiers shows that everything is not where it should be. Due the fact the final missile caused the Rift to open the Closer the characters get to the rift the more distortion there is. In buried you are the closest to the Rift and a western town has materialized there. Each Time pocket required a Tower to be lit up inside so that Maxis could Harness their Energy. 

It also explains why Maxis sent the missiles in the first Place. He intended to create the Pockets. 

 

As for any time pockets in Black ops I don't think there are any. Time loops yes but not time Pockets as far as I know

 

Well, there is some people who believe Moon (and therefore Tranzit) are actually set in the year 2025 or thereabouts as opposed to the 60's, so the Driver is explained by that one. Then the town in Buried is partially explained in-game by quotes from Marlton that it was down to the tectonic plates shifting that moved the town there rather than it appearing via a time pocket. If Tranzit did indeed take place in 2025, then Die Rise could easily have taken place at the same time. The only thing giving it any kind of timeframe is the "est since 1996" writing which only really means that the map takes place sometime after 96, and the chinese calander gives it the date of Jan 1st I believe.

 

It is also believed that Maxis intended on destroying the Earth as he believed that he could enter Agartha via the Earths core (if you believe the hollow Earth theory), which means he did not have the intention of creating time bubbles.

Tranzit and die rise do not take place in 2025. After the world is completely destroyed I doubt anyone had the time or supplies to make a robot bus driver. Don't forget that the box brings weapons from any time period because the box is loke a dimensional hole.

Marlton may be considered smart and his assumption that the town arrived due to the techtonic plates shifting is intelligent. However compared to The events that are trully happening Marltons intelligence is very low. He does not know of griffons station, he never saw the Mpd, he never learned of the group 935 research. In other words The extent of Marltons comprehension only allows him to deduce that the techtonic playes shifted.