I think we need to talk about the raidios more...

[Guest nayrc]

ok, this is my take on the whole spy/dempesy thing

Radio 1

"Log entry 1471

Date: September 2nd 1945

Dear diary.

I think I might have killed the specimen from Mexico. His spleen is on the floor and and he's not moving anymore.

— Richtofen

firstly, in this radio Richthofen explaining how he killed/broke the mexican specimen

Radio 2

"Log Entry 1472

Date: September 10th 1945.

Oh. Apparently someone in security? found a spy today, they are delivering him from Verrückt, to replace the one that I broke (chuckle)."

— Richtofen

now, in this radio he explains how a spy was found and is being delivered to replace the one he broke ie. the mexican

Radio 3.

"Log Entry 1473

Date: September 17th 1945.

"I suppose this must be the replacement then. (Fiendishly) Time to get to work!"

— Richtofen

now this is where things get confusing if Dempsey is the replacement that would mean he must have been the spy sent to replace the mexican, but... wasn't Dempsey leading a rescue mission

Radio 4

"Log 4174.

Date: September 20, 1945.

It would seem that the OSS realized that we have captured one of their spies. They tried to send a rescue team to Verrückt that was (static) The first batch of test subjects. I suspect that there are others/more in the Organization. Dr. Harvey Yena or Dr. Peter McCain to be precise.

— Richtofen

now to me at this point every thing gets messed up, if you are going by the radios alone it seems that a rescue team was sent in to rescue the spy in verruckt, witch would be Dempsey as he was the replacement for the mexican spy

BUT if your going by the terminal details Dempsey was the rescue team leader and peter was the spy (in the radios Richthofen talks of peter as he isn't a confirmed spy)

so to kinda sum it all up in my mind

radio version

there was a mexican spy, Richthofen killed him and a replacement spy was being sent from verrauckt, the replacement spy was Dempsey but the O.S.S. sent a team in to try to rescue him witch then went on to become the first test subjects and Dempsey was delivered to Richthofen

terminal version

peter was a spy in 935 but as the O.S.S. realized his cover had been blown so they sent in a team, lead by Dempsey to verruckt to save him

there is something fishy going on here ill be back later to see if i can work it out

(sorry if this is a bit confusing as i've been melting my brain trying to work it out)

[Guest TheHeckz]

Peter couldn't have been the one caught! Rictofen said his name was Doctor Peter McCain. Since when is a doctor also a part-time spy that gets caught by sociopathic German scientists?????? :mrgreen:

[Guest racerten]

Peter couldn't have been the one caught! Rictofen said his name was Doctor Peter McCain. Since when is a doctor also a part-time spy that gets caught by sociopathic German scientists??????

It's not hard to imagine that a doctor was spying for the OSS. Infact triple letter agencies always have a very wide variety of people on their payroll.

[Guest TFG Dubz]

Peter couldn't have been the one caught! Rictofen said his name was Doctor Peter McCain. Since when is a doctor also a part-time spy that gets caught by sociopathic German scientists??????

Peter was a spy and was originally sent to Der riese, and der riese was a r&d base full of you guessed it scientists

Doctor ludvig maxis

doctor edward richtofen

You see where im going with this?

Doc Hyena

and Agent doctor peter mckay/macain

How else would an american gain access to a top secret reseach base if he wasnt a.scientists?

It.was.shortly after he was initiated into Der riese tyat he was sent to Verruckt, however her was captured, and sent to Shi No Numa and died/killed

[Guest nayrc]

Ok I think I got this one

What if Peter was the spy found in verruckt but when the rescue team arrived he was already gone leaving the germans to think Dempsey was the spy and the other 3 where the rescue team.

Or a slight alteration, when the arrived Peter hadn't left yet but dempsey saw what he had done and how much he knew and decided to let Peter escape and took his place as "the replacement/spy"

Both of these conclusions lead Peter to remain unidentified and Dempsey caught as a "spy"

[Guest luka]

hey ive been reading about dympsey being the spy and all.but i was thinking.what if dympsey DISGUISED himself in order to protect peter's identity?.i mean what is the point in a rescue mission if your target is gonna die?,also it would be explinable with his "Strong will",as an american he wont rat on his friends.

i personnally find this very true comparing to what mason did in the campaign on black ops (OP40)

also i know my grammer is not that great,but im not bsing this.think about it yourself

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A young man once said

"Give me Liberty - Or give me BRAAAAINS"

"EDIT" just saw someone beat me to the punch,but i admit it is possible that dympsey was the "Assumed" spy and i think richtofen is a bit suspicious since clearly he believes dympsey is not smart at all.

also rich did mention peter's name but DID not mention him BIENG the spy,so its safe to assume that whoever the "spy" might have been,they didnt know who it really was

[Guest TFG Dubz]

Ok I think I got this one

What if Peter was the spie found in verruckt but when the rescue team arrived he was already gone leaving the germans to think Dempsey was the spy and the other 3 where the rescue team.

Or a slight alteration, when the arrived Peter hadn't left yet but dempsey saw what he had done and how much he knew and decided to let Peter escape and took his place as "the replacement/spy"

Both of these conclusions lead Peter to remain unidentified and Dempsey caught as a "spy"

not a bad idea at all nay i like it [brains]

What if Tank was Peters handler? you know, the one who sent the radio message found in Shi No Numa? (yes i know the voices are different, but it wouldnt be the first time treyarch messed up with voices quotes and could have been done on purpose not to give away too much too soon, after all Edward Richtofen in the Der Riese radios sounds alot different to the Richtofen we play as now, Being exposed to Element 115 could have been the reasons for the difference in voices, the same could be said for dempsey)

anyway the swamp transcripts mention "We failed to contain the asylum" and mentions the Handler went missing prior to the radio transmission being sent" both coincide with Tank being operation leader for the 4 marines being sent in to Verruckt to Extract Agent peter but being too late (hence why he says WE failed to contain it)

when you think about it, this is quite an obvious move by treyarch looking back, cant believe i didnt think of it sooner, think im slacking

[Guest Magna]

I'm going to throw this in there, but one of the characters in call of the dead is mexican, probably no relevance but worth a shot. My mind exploded in pieces when I saw the words Harvery Yena. He must be signifant 'Hyena' has appeared in some of the maps.

[Guest Matuzz]

I just found interesting fail in cod wikia:

"Takeo, was one of Richtofen's test subjects Richtofen said, he just stood and kept saying a proverb over and over thinking his mind must have gone. He, Nikolai and Tank joined Richtofen after the breakout in Der Riese (that Richtofen caused) and escaped to Verruckt to rescue Peter McCain and Harvey Yena."

Thats so F*cked up

And about the radios, I believe the Mexican is alien.

And the broken subject who was replaced with spy doesn't need to be Mexican as Richtofen had most likely many test subjects/specimens going on.

[Guest Monopoly Mac]

Hm... Off topic here, I don't know if anybody knows this... But in Tank Dempseys bio in Shi No Numa it specifically says he "was selected for this mission after he showed his true grit at the battle for Peleliu." So I guess we know that the crew was sent on a certain mission by certain people right? The bio based on that little statement about Peleliu sounds like America was the one who sent the crew...

EDIT: No I am not overthinking this. I am now positive I was on the money with this. In the beginning of the Shi no Numa trailer Tank says "I think this is the place". Definitely sent there by somebody.

Just a little theory here. Tank Dempsey. Takeo Masaki. Nikolai Belinski. They were all chosen because of their notoriety on the battlefield and in badassery. The mission objective was to retrieve Edward Richtofen from the hut but it was interrupted by the sudden threat of the undead. And as they fought the zombies for the coming days, the constant consumption of perk a colas made them forget what they were there for.

[Guest Slave]

So, if tank is a decoy for peter, in a kinda roundabout way, i could sorta be right. lol.

i like that idea better than my idea for Tank being the spy.... it fits, but something about tank says he shouldnt be a spy.... maybe its his badassery.

Though, he would not be a handler per say as they generally are not field agents and are known as case officers. He would be better for the idea of a rescuer sent as a decoy though. i like that one way better than him to be a spy of some sort.

[Guest Tac]

I agree... we need to examine these radio messages more precisely... Whats really bothering me is how did Dempsey get captured before the O.S.S actually sent in a rescue team. And Richtofen mentions there sending a spy from Verruckt to replace the Mexican yet Dempsey comes instead?

Perhaps Tank tried to intercept the delivery?

What color are tanks eyes? maybe he was the spy that was caught, since it is never really stated that peter was caught? Especially if in the last message, peter is still roaming free, along with Yena. so my theory was that tank was a spy sent in, since he is blonde, and maybe he speaks german? speculation of course, but it makes more sense when you line up a few facts.

as for any aliens. No. no nonononononono. just stop. look, even if there was area 51 map, why would there be aliens? the ufo? nope, that would be Die Glocke, as it was last noted being seen transported to the south west USA. I refer you to the loading screen pic of the stones and fern. A 51 is in a desert, not a tropical area.

As for specimen vs subject, a person can be a specimen, as well as a subject. In Medical Examiners reports, a person is generally known as a Specimen during autopsy(glorified dissection) and the dead mexican was dissected, as his spleen was removed. Edward is a doctor, and if that is a doctor in a medical sense, then he would have had the training to automatically and subconsciously refer to a dead and dessicated corpse as a specimen.

Lastly, if tank was the Replacement for the specimen, that would indicate that subjects were similar to the point that common sense would dictate they are both human. Or that tank is not human........*cue suspense audio clip.

In terminal, Maxis refers to Sophia as a nice specimen, so they do refer to humans as them

[Guest mattbyles]

So, if tank is a decoy for peter, in a kinda roundabout way, i could sorta be right. lol.

i like that idea better than my idea for Tank being the spy.... it fits, but something about tank says he shouldnt be a spy.... maybe its his badassery.

It's most likely the fact he couldn't put two and two together even if the answer was engraved on the back of his M16!... i doubt a WW2 PoW would be an excellent undercover spy especially someone with Dempsey's violent behavior

[Guest Tac]

I know that 3arc throws curveballs and what not, but I don't think that they would make something in the Terminal to be non-factual. Otherwise we would heave to question the entire CIA database. The terminal specifically says that they found a spy and the OSS sent in a team led by Dempsey, so with the info given, the spy can't be Dempsey.

[Guest nayrc]

I know that 3arc throws curveballs and what not, but I don't think that they would make something in the Terminal to be non-factual. Otherwise we would heave to question the entire CIA database. The terminal specifically says that they found a spy and the OSS sent in a team led by Dempsey, so with the info given, the spy can't be Dempsey.

yes but read this that i posted earlier

Ok I think I got this one

What if Peter was the spy found in verruckt but when the rescue team arrived he was already gone leaving the germans to think Dempsey was the spy and the other 3 where the rescue team.

Or a slight alteration, when the arrived Peter hadn't left yet but dempsey saw what he had done and how much he knew and decided to let Peter escape and took his place as "the replacement/spy"

Both of these conclusions lead Peter to remain unidentified and Dempsey caught as a "spy"

now these may not be 100% accurate due to newly found evidence but the ideas stay the same they just need a little adjusting

[Guest Tac]

Maybe during the transfer, the spy (Peter?) escaped. Richtofen never does say he has the spy in his custody.

[Guest Slave]

As to the possibility of the games cia database being wrong, it wouldnt be the first time a game company had something wrong due to a minor discrepiency. Oh, imagine how many different people work on things, and how much collaboration it takes to get so many details to match up. sometimes things slip or arent done by someone who wasnt completely there. It also isnt the first time a government intel would be wrong. heck irl the american gov. messed up with the intel that came in for the september 11th hijackings, so why would a videogame gov. be any different in that aspect?

[Guest Tac]

Like I said above, the terminal physically would never ever be wrong. If a single aspect in it was wrong, then we would have to question the entire thing and a lot of theories would be invalid. The terminal isn't incorrect.

[Guest Slave]

ah, but thats the clincher, its called falsified intel, or inaccurate intel. Would it not make sense for them to have items that mislead or misdirect a person in the event of a "spy" hacking it? i mean, if a company goes so far as to make a game that people play, and they want to immerse said people into the game and have all these back story, extras, and what not, to the point that a person would feel that the game "universe" follows how things would really work, would they then not supply false info and provide false leads?

Maybe there is false info in it, and just like in real life, when you search for facts, you have to remove the chaff and false leads to find the important stuff. like honestly, how relevant to anything is the fact that mason gets disowned? i dont really see how that affects anything but character developement. See? useless info for the sorting.

I dont have any other examples, because i only have it for xbox, and my usb keyboard broke, so now i cant type too fast and get bored from taking a half hour or more to open a mail set

[Guest Tac]

ah, but thats the clincher, its called falsified intel, or inaccurate intel. Would it not make sense for them to have items that mislead or misdirect a person in the event of a "spy" hacking it? i mean, if a company goes so far as to make a game that people play, and they want to immerse said people into the game and have all these back story, extras, and what not, to the point that a person would feel that the game "universe" follows how things would really work, would they then not supply false info and provide false leads?

Maybe there is false info in it, and just like in real life, when you search for facts, you have to remove the chaff and false leads to find the important stuff. like honestly, how relevant to anything is the fact that mason gets disowned? i dont really see how that affects anything but character developement. See? useless info for the sorting.

I dont have any other examples, because i only have it for xbox, and my usb keyboard broke, so now i cant type too fast and get bored from taking a half hour or more to open a mail set

You make a convincing argument. I could see false leads in the sense of trying to sway you towards one answer when it's a different, but I can't see there being purely just straight out false information.

[Guest Slave]

The thing about the cia database, is that people assume it is all fact, when in reality, a fact is only a fact for as long as a person has not disproven it. take the idea of the world being flat. it was seen as fact for centuries, until people disproved it, and even then it wasnt for decades since.

I try not to think of any one bit of info in the games as one hundred percent fact, but more of a general guideline for a person to devise his own idea of whats what. Now, i aint saying that people shouldnt colaborate and think of what could be very probable ideas, such as how people know a general story and list of events of what happened to cause the zombie outbreak and all that, but we dont have every little detail. like, the maxis fam is dead, or in an alternate exhistance, but we dont know exactly which or who is where and why. we know demp was sent in for some reason, but two sets of info imply so many different possibilities.

but overall, i think im off base of topic.... haha...