Accumulating Storyline

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Okay. Thanks, btw, MonopolyMac for the insertion; I appreciate input (Yes, Tac, I appreciate yours too )

So, we agree what happened, for whatever reasons. The only dispute left at this point is their existence being the same entity, which we've already discussed and decided to let slide for now.

Okay, so what do you think Richtofen did for 19 days (not counting the voyage back) while he was in Shangri-La? Kill?

[Guest Tac]

Hmm, I think that he met the Vril-ya and just convinced them that he is a god. From there, they built the alter in his name and teleported him back, that is the basis of what I believe happened. I don't think he killed until later.

[Guest Ehjookayted]

Let's remember the ideas of time and chaos theory... I do love seeing good storyline discussion though. 8-)

I'll just leave this here...

Absolute vs. Relative Truth & the Question of Time

[Guest Monopoly Mac]

Are we sure the Vril Ya were even at Shangri la? Shangri las a paradise and all but you would think an advanced race like them wouldn't live in temples you know? Anyways I think it was a society of human slaves left by the Vril Ya on the surface and when they saw Richtofens genius they all bowed down to him. That's just me, if you have some evidence of dead Vril ya I'd be happy to join the bandwagon.

[Guest Tac]

I don't believe that they lived in Shangri-La, I believe they lived under the surface, but they were on the surface basically 24/7.

[Guest Monopoly Mac]

Alright lets say they were on the surface 24/7. I've never read the actual book but I've read about it. In "The Power of the Coming Race" by Edward Bulwer Lytton, he says the Vril Ya were angel like creatures, very tall, and most of all they possessed a source of energy known as Vril. Why would a powerful race like them ally themselves with a puny human like Richtofen?

[Guest Tac]

Because he was one of the finest and smartest of the era. He had the means of finding them, being the first ever to do so, so he had something special, so they allied with him.

[Guest Ehjookayted]

Alright lets say they were on the surface 24/7. I've never read the actual book but I've read about it. In "The Power of the Coming Race" by Edward Bulwer Lytton, he says the Vril Ya were angel like creatures, very tall, and most of all they possessed a source of energy known as Vril. Why would a powerful race like them ally themselves with a puny human like Richtofen?

Perhaps they wanted to use him as a means to an end?

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Yeah, I'm with Mac. I've said that Shangri-La is a gateway to Agartha, where the Vril-Ya lived, and has temples that the Vril-Ya made (they were actually machines). But I don't think Vril-Ya lived in Shangri-La. Vril-Ya do NOT live above ground. They've always been underground. Plus, Zombies are now present at Shangri-La, and Zombies were once human. While Vril-Ya are subhuman, they are NOT Asians, which the Zombie resemble more.

@Ehjookayted: It's a good thread, but honestly you lost me when you got to Satan. The whole truth information was quite interesting. I was trying to consider the information and whether it applies to the story, but it seems to apply to us applying the story more than the facts themselves. And I seem to think that both types of truth are prevalent in the world, or a mixture, if that's possible. As for the chaos theory... it really is just a theory. We have no time travel, so we can only imagine what it would be like. Chaos theory is just one imagining of it. An alternative theory, which I recall from reading Isaac Asimov, is that you kill a mouse, a couple foxes go hungry here, and then a couple mice get abundant here, then vice versa, and it all balances out in the end. All I'm trying to say with that is that time may not be as chaotic as chaos theory suggests. If I go back in time and kill a mouse, the differences may not be that drastic, and in Zombies, there isn't anything prominent to suggest so.

EDIT: In the time it took me to post this, more posts were made, so my abridged post below:

Tac, I don't think Richtofen ever met the Vril-Ya. I think he just ends up using their technology. In the book, Edward Bulwer-Lytton met them, and he was lucky to get out with his life intact. They were going to murder him for being an abomination (carnivore). They have since known about the surface-dwellers (although the few that knew possibly never told anyone) since 1871, but they don't really care; there was no invasion of the surface world; they keep to themselves. If they met Richtofen, they'd probably have had him killed too. Btw, they weren't actually angels, just angel-like. They had synthetic/robotic wings that they wore to fly. Also, vril energy is specifically said to not be efficiently usable by anyone besides Vril-Ya. That's why it is merely part of Richtofen's scheme. Also, Richtofen would be the second person to meet them, as Edward Bulwer-Lytton did (and it is canon too, because if Vril-Ya exist, so does the guy who "discovered" them).

EDIT EDIT: By the way, Ehjookayted, thanks for the input

I'm reminded of a story I heard from an acquaintance who took a psychology class. There was an essay test, were the students had to prove that the chair did not exist. One kid got a perfect score on the test. His paper read "What chair?"

[Guest Monopoly Mac]

Because he was one of the finest and smartest of the era. He had the means of finding them, being the first ever to do so, so he had something special, so they allied with him.

Perhaps... I also wonder how him and Griffin Station managed to kill the Vril Ya. I think the answer is 115. Vril is an energy capable of creation and destruction. The same with The Element. If Richtofen demonstrated the power of 115 it must have swayed the Vril Ya over to his side. This is all just me brainstorming of course.

Also by the way... Don't take this as a stab at you or anything but according to you wouldn't the Vril Ya he found and killed be the Illuminati that was trying to lead him? :?

Alright lets say they were on the surface 24/7. I've never read the actual book but I've read about it. In "The Power of the Coming Race" by Edward Bulwer Lytton, he says the Vril Ya were angel like creatures, very tall, and most of all they possessed a source of energy known as Vril. Why would a powerful race like them ally themselves with a puny human like Richtofen?

Perhaps they wanted to use him as a means to an end?

I haven't thought of that. 115 could be an alternative energy to Vril and possibly more powerful.

[Guest Tac]

Because he was one of the finest and smartest of the era. He had the means of finding them, being the first ever to do so, so he had something special, so they allied with him.

Perhaps... I also wonder how him and Griffin Station managed to kill the Vril Ya. I think the answer is 115. Vril is an energy capable of creation and destruction. The same with The Element. If Richtofen demonstrated the power of 115 it must have swayed the Vril Ya over to his side. This is all just me brainstorming of course.

Also by the way... Don't take this as a stab at you or anything but according to you wouldn't the Vril Ya he found and killed be the Illuminati that was trying to lead him? :?

You produce good points in that last sentence, perhaps he wasn't aware they were the same. Not sure, I'll have to think about that. In regards to your other paragraph, have you ever thought about he idea that maybe Vril-ya and 115 are similar, like nearly the same thing?

[Guest Ehjookayted]

Yeah, I do appreciate the criticism MurderMachine. There were some sketchy parts to that thread. Also, MonopolyMac, it'd be interesting to see what kind of results further research into the effects of Vril and 115 would yield. Perhaps there were traits that both parties required in this situation.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

The Vril-Ya would have killed Richtofen before he could leave, just like how they tried to kill Edward Bulwer-Lytton. And Richtofen could never control vril energy to its true potential, being a mere surface-dweller. Only Vril-Ya can fully use the staff. That's why he needed Element 115, because vril alone would not be enough power for him... Now if a Vril-Ya had used the Vril Device... things could've been a LOT worse, like maybe he'd have blown up the Earth AND Mars AND the Moon jk on that last sentence.

[Guest Tac]

I guess, personally I don't think they would have when he explained the technology that they had and how he got there. I think that they thought of him as a true genius and they considered him to be a god-like man. But I won't go any further, it seems I have worn out my welcome on the topic and for the time being. :P

[Guest MurderMachineX]

I don't mean to make you feel unwelcome. I'm sorry. I just disagree; if I can be allowed one more reason, it's that the Vril-Ya looked down on all other societies, not just the surface-dwellers. There were many societies within Agartha, not part of the Vril-Ya, that the Vril-Ya looked down upon. They weren't technically a utopia, as they were not perfect. When I read the book, the theme to me seemed to be that they were to us as what we were to the third-world countries.

[Guest Tac]

It's fine, don't worry about it. I am sorry for sounding like an ass, it wasn't so much that I was mad that you disagreed, because that's fine, it was that I had never heard of a person who had seen a particular thing the way I did, and then more members kind of chipped in and I wrongly felt under attack so I got defensive.

[Guest BlindBusDrivr]

Just something I came up with here, based on some ideas I've heard from Mac and Shoreyo, What if the vril ya left shangri la and that's why Richtofen was able to be viewed as some sort of messiah. But he still killed them all.

Because what if when Satan used Richtofen to do everything and get into the MPD, he knew that it would trigger Maxis to launch the nukes and destroy the earth, killing the vril ya as revenge for imprisoning him in aether.

If you're confused by what I'm saying here reading this might help a little

http://callofdutyzombies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=19600

[Guest Tac]

Yay, I'm not the only one who believes the Devil is deeply involved!

[Guest Monopoly Mac]

I love when people include Satan in their theories. I know some people don't like religion in zombies but I think it adds some more creativity and flavor to the storyline. I also feel he adds a nice twist to it.

Anyways. @Tacinsertion,

I know we talked about the relationship between 115 and Vril. At one point I did think Vril and the element were the same but to be honest I can't decide. :?

[Guest Tac]

Yeah, I can't really tell what to believe anymore. There is a lot I want to believe that I feel isn't true, but there is a ton I don't want to believe that I feel is most likely true.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Yeah.... well... I fully, wholeheartedly, 100% believe that the Devil/ Satan/ Lucifer does not have any involvement in the story, at least not any more than everyday life, real life.

[Guest Tac]

Yeah.... well... I fully, wholeheartedly, 100% believe that the Devil/ Satan/ Lucifer does not have any involvement in the story, at least not any more than everyday life, real life.

Really? What about the quotes about making a deal with the devil and such? Not to mention black magic

[Guest BlindBusDrivr]

Yeah.... well... I fully, wholeheartedly, 100% believe that the Devil/ Satan/ Lucifer does not have any involvement in the story, at least not any more than everyday life, real life.

Regardless he still has indirect effect on the whole storyline. There's evidence that the vril ya may have worshipped or imprisoned him. There's tiny references all around and including the pack a punch and it's black magic.

Plus, the Devil isn't the religious symbol we know, in zombies he is an alien criminal. Like Darth Sidious in Star Wars.

Also I think 115 may have even been created by the devil, because the biggest sin is greed and that seems to always be what the element provokes from humans.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Yeah, I've read that Satan thread in the asylum, and I could pick it apart, too. Oooh, pentagrams! You can literally draw a pentagram through any five points...

You mean Takeo's "black magic" quote? Bah! Takeo sometimes means well, but he hypothesizes. He has many quotes which are just him being his babbling philosophical self.

Kino der Toten:

"Sounds like a big beast is attacking the building." There is no beast on the building. The sound is the Gas Zombies.

"The crystal rises. The plum blossom swirls in autumn twilight." Again, him being philosophical.

"The waters will flow, and you will reach the sky."

Takeo can call it dark magic because he can believe that if he chooses to, but he may not even actually mean it. He may have just been saying it like he makes those quotes that are actually references to other media. But the fact is that Takeo does not know how the Pack-A-Punch works. What does mankind do with technology we don't understand? We call it magic.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke

And there is no evidence that the Vril-Ya had anything to do with the devil. They weren't even Christian! They had their own distinct religion, worshipping their own deity whose name was only to be spoken from Vril-Ya to Vril-Ya.

I haven't watched Star Wars.

And Element 115 isn't just about greed. Maxis was trying to help the human race but had to divert his attention due to budget constraints. There was no greed in that at all. Richtofen wants to get power, but that isn't unique to 115.

[Guest Ehjookayted]

The devil is present. The Faustian myth- note, the poster in Kino der Toten- is one that describes a man making a deal with the devil for eternal power. There is the Demonic Announcer, of course, which implies devil or demon. Then, there are the Hellhounds, dogs from hell, Satan's realm. Nazism has been frequently associated with the occult, so there is some basis for the recurring allusions to the devil. Is it all a coincidence? Perhaps not, but check these links out if you wish to further delve into the devil's involvement here.

Nazism and the Occult

Where is Our True Hero?