Nuketown & Moon Timeline of Events

GRILL · June 22, 2014

Nuketown and Moon occur at the same time.

This fact is undeniable, given that we've literally been told by 3arc themselves:

"Nuketown Zombies is set during the events of Moon, and after the end of the multiplayer level from the original Black Ops game."

- Season Pass map description

"Nuketown Zombies is set during the events of Moon, and after the end of the multiplayer level from the original Black Ops game. A group of radiation scientists are investigating the Nuketown remains and discover soldiers that have been revived by Element 115 from a nearby Nevada base. The zombie soldiers attack the radiation scientists and turn them, and after receiving a distress signal, the base in Nevada sends in CIA and CDC agents to investigate. Upon arrival in Nuketown the agents lose communication with Hangar 18 and become stranded…setting the stage for Nuketown Zombies."

- Season Pass map description

The problem that we've always had is trying to figure out chronologically when Moon/Nuketown takes place.

Is it 1960-something, going with the Black Ops era?

Is it 2025, going with the Black Ops 2 era?

Or is it both, simply because Element 115 can displace objects in time and space?

Well, I'm here to give my opinions and supporting facts on why Nuketown and Moon occur in the 1960's - and why the Nuketown loading screen itself happens beyond the year 2025.

The true answer may never be known, but I'd like to expand on an idea I've been forming (based on threads by @Shooter , @Tac , @PINNAZ , & @MixMasterNut ) and I hope that you the reader will at least entertain that perhaps we
don't know everything yet.

Events of Nuketown & Moon as they transpired:

1960-something:

- Soldiers fighting (multiplayer)

- Nuke goes off, soldiers die

- The Nuke crater unearths Element 115

- Element 115 (now airborne) revives soldiers

- Scientists from Groom Lake arrive, investigate

- Scientists are attacked by zombie soldiers, activate distress signal

- CIA/CDC agents dispatched from Groom Lake

- O4 arrive at Groom Lake, Samantha is sending zombies at them

- CIA/CDC arrive at Nuketown, and loose communication with Hangar 18

- Meanwhile... the O4 traverse the moons landscape, making their way to Griffen Station

- CIA/CDC fight against zombies as long as they can

- Richtofen takes control of zombies from Samantha

- Maxis launches Moon missiles

- CIA/CDC die by zombies just as one of the 3 Moon missile's strikes earth

***Many years pass by***

2025+:

- (Nuketown Zombies loading screen) A mysterious being uses a 115 extraction drill on the crater that once was Nuketown. The only other reference we have seen to a 115 extraction drill is in ORIGINS.

Why are soldiers fighting there?

This is a hard question, because - usually we aren't supposed to consider multiplayer maps cannon. It's possible that the soldiers are fighting because it is a training exercise, it's also possible that they we're fighting because there was something of value in Nuketown.

It's ALSO possible that the scientists, who investigate the site so quickly after the nuke detonates, knew about the Element 115 deposit underneath - and were literally conducting experiments on human beings.

Who are these zombies loyal to?

"Nuketown Zombies is set during the events of Moon, and after the end of the multiplayer level from the original Black Ops game."

- Season Pass map description

Right from the start, this story is hard to follow. We've been told that Samantha controls the zombies, and that she sends never-ending hordes after the O4 in an effort to stop Richtofen's plan. The zombies in Nuketown start off with yellow eyes, meaning they are controlled by Samantha - as they game plays through, Richtofen takes control and the eyes turn blue; all the while, the zombies are attacking the CIA/CDC agents.

If these corpses were revived simply by the act of the nuke unearthing 115, then it's possible to say that this might be one of the first documented cases of zombies attacking for the sake of attacking. If Samantha is not controlling them, what is their purpose? If Samantha IS controlling them - then what does she have to gain by killing off the CIA/CDC? Isn't she a little caught up with the whole "Richtofen trying to swap souls with her" thing?

To me, this reads as the zombies operating on instincts rather then orders. Basically, if the O4 are in the vicinity - then they become a priority... HOWEVER, if (for example) the O4 were on the Moon and there was a group of zombies in Nevada, the zombies in Nevada would simply attack the closest thing possible.

Hence, in conducting the Nuketown experiment - the scientists unwittingly released the first true zombie attack on American civilians (outside of Mob of the Dead).

Meanwhile...

The literal definition of "meanwhile" is: in the intervening period of time, or at the same time

Shangri-La does not happen at the same time as Moon. Richtofen must have the focusing stone before he can even execute his plan on the Moon. The developers have flat out told us that Moon and Nuketown occur at the same time, so wouldn't that be a strong indicator that "meanwhile" is talking about the events of Nuketown, not of Shangri-La? Why would there be 4 astronauts if we weren't immediately supposed to assume "oh, that's the O4"?

I'm going to play the devil's advocate for a moment; in comic books, "meanwhile" will often refer to a previous page or previous plot point. It is much more feasible to say that what we are seeing on the Moon loading screen IS occurring at the time of Shangri-La - and that the 4 astronauts are not the O4, but perhaps Griffen station scientists.

It's also a huge mystery as to what the hell that Shangri-La temple is doing floating around in space, and then seemingly firmly planted to the Moon's surface as the astronauts traverse the Tacitus Ravine (as it's been called). The only thing many can extract from this, is that it means that the loading screen is related to Shangri-La... and I can't help but agree.

Switching out of devils advocate mode - I have no clue how to explain the Shangri-La temple in the Moon loading screen, or how it could relate to Nuketown. I'm more so mentioning this because of the inclusion of the word "meanwhile", and how that in itself could pertain to Nuketown and Moon at the same time.

Where are the Radiation Scientists & CIA/CDC Agents From?

"A group of radiation scientists are investigating the Nuketown remains and discover soldiers that have been revived by Element 115 from a nearby Nevada base."

- Season Pass Map Description

This description is very strangely worded. Are the radiation scientists from the "nearby Nevada base"? Are the zombie soldiers from the "nearby Nevada base"? Or, is the Element 115 from the "nearby Nevada base"?

Also, the word "investigating" is another red flag. If Nuketown is a nuclear test site, then are they investigating their findings of a deadly nuclear experiment? How much do these radiation scientists know? Clearly, not much because they are attacked and killed by the undead soldiers:

"The zombie soldiers attack the radiation scientists and turn them, and after receiving a distress signal, the base in Nevada sends in CIA and CDC agents to investigate. Upon arrival in Nuketown the agents lose communication with Hangar 18... "

- Season Pass Map Description

Okay, so another vague description at first. "The base in Nevada" sends in these agents, whom are apparently in communication with Hangar 18. Does this mean that they were dispatched from Hangar 18? Why would they be in communication with Hangar 18 if they weren't intrinsically from Hangar 18/Groom Lake/Area 51 in general? I'm going to go with "yes", the CDC/CIA are involved with Area 51 - they are in communication with Hangar 18.

Hangar 18

Hangar 18 is the largest Hangar in Area 51, it takes up approximately 51,366 square feet capable of accommodating aircraft with a wingspan of 235 feet, and a length of 190 feet. The height of Hangar 18 is estimated to be eight stories.

- http://fas.org/irp/overhead/ikonos_040400_hanger_18_01-f.htm

Before I proceed - Groom Lake & Area 51 are synonymous. I don't want people to get caught up in the syntax, so when I say "Area 51", or "Groom Lake" - I'm talking about the same thing, and when I say "Hangar 18", it's a structure inside of Groom Lake/Area 51.

Groom Lake, Homey Airport, KXTA, Paradise Ranch, Dreamland, Home Base, Watertown.

Speaking of Groom Lake...

"In No Man's Land, there is a banner for Detachment 1 of the 1129th Division Special Activities Squadron, active from 1962-1968. They had a ceremony in 1966 congratulating their 500th flight, so the banner may have been put up then."

- @Tac http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/forum/index.php/topic/139203-time-location-of-zombies-maps-update-origins/

When you start up Moon, you are in No Man's Land - on Groom Lake. This sign is present (thanks to @Shooter for the photo - http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/forum/index.php/topic/147694-no-mans-land-1962-1968/) and with the combination of the above quote from @Tac , and of course the confirmation from 3arc with the description of Nuketown - it's easy to see that Nuketown Zombies occurs in 1960-something.

The Missile You See at the Death Screen

After Richtofen takes control in Moon, what happens? Maxis has us launch 3 missiles that target and explode on Earth, here's comparison pictures of a missile on the Moon, and the missile that hits Nuketown Zombies at the death screen:

To me, they look very much alike. The only difference I can see is regarding the red rings - there is an extra red ring where the missile goes from narrow to fat.

And then What Happens?

That really is the question, isn't it?

The nuke(s) from Nuketown weakened the earth's crust, creating craters - and unearthing Element 115 emanating from the ground. This clearly was a hotspot for 115.

The missiles from the Moon? Completely uprooted the Element 115 - converging it with our atmosphere, combining with particles until it ultimately disrupted and displaced the fabric of time and space. Past, present, and future combined into a hodgepodge of scorched earth and devastation.

"The World is Broken..."

-Russman

What about the TranZit Bus Honking in Nuketown?

There is no one way to answer this, but I'll do my best.

@ uses the TranZit bus as one of the examples as to why TranZit/Green Run happens in the future. The Bus Driver AI is way beyond the technology present in the 1960's, and I think it's a safe bet to agree with him.

But in defending this theory, I'd argue that having basic automated AI in the 1960's isn't unrealistic. It's not like The Bus Driver actually knows how to carry a conversation, he just reacts to what happens. Hop on and he'll tell you to close the doors, get to a stop and he'll tell you that you've arrived, shoot him in the head and he'll kick you off... it's not like you can ask him what his favorite color is, and he'll thoughtfully respond back.

The reason why we hear the TranZit bus in Nuketown could be as simple as the bus was a means of transportation for the Radiation Scientists conducting tests at Nuketown. The bus probably had a schedule, and would arrive daily to collect or dispatch scientists. The reason for The Bus Driver AI & heavy duty material was because it would have to withstand literal nuclear blasts and still remain operational.

And what about Marlton trapped in the Nuketown bunker?

This, is a giant thorn in all of our sides, to be honest. It's almost as if Treyarch doesn't even keep tabs on the story they are telling.

Marlton is somehow trapped in the 1960's, in a bunker, in Nuketown. He claims that he was banished, it's all very vague and foggy. A lot of people say that he somehow escapes and then hops on the TranZit bus we hear.

My take: Marlton was one of the Radiation Scientists that performed tests on Nuketown. Perhaps he was aware of the Element 115 deposit under Nuketown and attempted to warn his fellow scientists, thus leading to exile. Either that, or perhaps he knew too much - and they purposely left him in Nuketown to die - thinking that he'd be killed by either time, radiation, or a nuclear explosion itself.

BUT (and this is a giant "but"), according to the Buried intro cutscene, Marlton meets up with Misty - and then meets up with Russman & Stu in TranZit. Russman & Stu were on the bus, NOT Marlton. On top of that, if Marlton was a Radiation Scientist who worked on Nuketown and used the bus as transportation, he would recognize it... yet, he doesn't. Russman seems to have lapses in his memory, perhaps everyone does?

Some Time Later...

A mysterious being uses massive technology to extract the 115 deposit left from the 115 rocket.

We know that it is a 115 extraction drill because of the blueprints found in ORIGINS:

Many would suggest that because the 115 Extraction Drill has been around since ORIGINS, that the Nuketown loading screen could occur in the past - I don't think that's the case, because how would the crater be there? This is clearly years later, after the fallout has cleared, after the zombies have been scattered - and there is a clear purpose behind extracting this 115.

Suggested Reading:

@MixMasterNut 's "Ultimate Nuketown Loading Screen Analysis" - http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/forum/index.php/topic/152716-the-ultimate-nuketown-zombies-loading-screen-analysis/

@MixMasterNut 's "Ultimate Moon Loading Screen Analysis" - http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/forum/index.php/topic/172313-the-ultimate-moon-loading-screen-analysis-updated-5-30-12/

@Shooter 's "No Man's Land - 1962-1968" - http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/forum/index.php/topic/147694-no-mans-land-1962-1968/

@Rissole25 's "Nuketown Loading Screen" - http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/forum/index.php/topic/149310-nuketown-zombies-loading-screen/

Black Hand Smith · June 22, 2014

That theory at the end about the Nuketown loading screen being far off into the future is in fact one of the most unique ways I have ever heard it described. In fact I believe it might be the first interesting theory I have heard in quite a while. Nice Job Brains

GRILL · June 23, 2014

That theory at the end about the Nuketown loading screen being far off into the future is in fact one of the most unique ways I have ever heard it described. In fact I believe it might be the first interesting theory I have heard in quite a while. Nice Job Brains

Thanks @Black Hand Smith

Everything about it looks futuristic - the ship/aircraft that the 115 Extraction drill is attached to, the mysterious being's attire, and the shot of the ship/aircraft's wing.

also UPDATE:

For now, I've added everything I wanted to - no longer a work in progress. I've cleaned up and condensed a lot of the sections, took out a bunch of stuff that was already commonplace knowledge, and added some photos!

I'd love to discuss with all of you

InfestLithium · June 23, 2014

Absolutely great read. I wouldn't expect anything less, especially coming from you friendo.

I remember us having a light discussion about the crater being made either by the excavation drill, the V2 missile, or the actual nuke in Nuketown. Take a gander at this:

At 0:15, note how far off the nuke is being dropped. Now if you replay it a few times, it seems to drop far enough in an equal distance compared to the crater made in Nuketown Zombies.

The explosion itself has to be large, which makes sense why the nuke was originally dropped at a very far distance. The impact created an extremely large crater, and would definitely unearth all that Element 115 which would later be investigated/extracted.

The question of why soldiers are fighting in Nuketown is a very interesting one. Aside the whole "Multiplayer maps are not entirely canon" ordeal, it would seem strange for the Spetsnaz soldiers to be fighting with US soldiers in a training facility. Needless to say, that nuke was not dropped by mistake. What makes it interesting is that if there were something of value within Nuketown, why would the nuke decide to be dropped during a fight?

To me (this is a far stretch), it seems as though the U.S. did not want to risk the Spetsnaz from retrieving something within Nuketown. In order to prevent that, the U.S. may have deliberately killed both them and their own American soldiers to prevent such an event from happening. Sacrificial lamb, you might call it.

Looking at this intrigues me. Let's say that the "MEANWHILE..." is in relation to the events of Nuketown Zombies. Note that the pyramid -shortly after flying through space - is now seen planted on the Moon's surface. It appears as though the four astronauts are coming out of that temple...or at least one of them is. We can't call them the O4 yet because we know that we spawn right in No Man's Land, in front of Hangar 18. Why travel to the Moon via pyramid, go to Area 51, only to come right back? It doesn't make much sense. What is known from this image, however, is that the pyramid is probably still on the Moon a good distance away from Griffin Station.

I'm reflecting back on this and it makes me wonder: if we have one temple sitting just outside of the Moon base, and the MPD within the base itself, doesn't that account for two pyramids? Sure, they aren't the exact same thing but it seems peculiar and odd to have them both near one another.

The excavation drill is spot on. For what purpose would [they] have to excavate the Element 115, I don't know.

Slade · June 23, 2014

Looks like they definitely stepped right out of the temple.

Looks to me these are Griffin Station scientists. They probably discovered the temple with the excavator, and decided to investigate.

They even took a souvenir with them.

InfestLithium · June 23, 2014

@Slade : But wouldn't they still have access to the main teleporter, given that these are Griffin Station scientists? That is, if any of them were even alive at this point in time. We're looking at anywhere from 60-80 years since Griffin Station was first established. If my memory serves me correctly, didn't Samantha end up killing everyone within the Moon base right after the incident with Maxis' "death"?

Note that they are wearing spacesuits; these astronauts knew very well that they were going into space. How they knew and how they found the pyramid prior to using it for travel is beyond me. I want to say that these astronauts are American/Russian, but I can't call that without a shred of evidence.

GRILL · June 23, 2014

@InfestLithium - glad you enjoyed the read! I'm going to respond to the things you brought up:

That video is awesome, because it totally shows how the nuke goes off just a little bit away from Nuketown. Granted, those houses wouldn't be standing anymore if they dropped a nuke on them - but still, interesting stuff... AND it corresponds with the map image of Nuketown from BO2, pretty cool man.

the soldiers fighting - yeah I have no idea how to explain that. Clearly, it's part of the story to an extent - because 3arc outright said that Nuketown zombies takes place after the bomb has gone off in the black ops multiplayer map.

"meanwhile..." - this loading page has always intrigued me, and to this day I still don't think we all fully grasp what in the hell is going on. Like you said, why would the O4 use a Vimana/Traveling Temple Pyramid to get from Shangri-La to the Moon - and THEN, go back to Area 51, use a teleporter and find a space suit. Possibly because they needed those stones that you have to Gersch next to the teleporter in NML? If that was the case, why wouldn't the O3+SAM use the Vimana after the ending of Moon?

Regardless, I think one of the most crucial things you pointed out was "the pyramid is still on the Moon, and a good distance away from Griffen Station". I agree with the fact of the pyramid still being there, but not about the distance from Griffen station:

The green line represents the Vimana/Pyramid/Shangri-La Temple's trajectory. The red lines represent where the astronauts would be going. I think it's important to note that in the bottom left photo, there is a man made bridge of some sort within the same field of view as where the Pyramid landed - so it can't be a great distance from Griffen station.

@Slade - nice spot on those footsteps man, it's those little cross marks - right?

And yeah, there are definitely artifacts from Shangri-La lying around - quite a few it seems.

I agree with @InfestLithium though, that this probably takes place after Samantha has entered the MPD. It's all open to interpretation, but her shadow makes it seem as if she is just watching and waiting from the Aether. Also, the scientists wouldn't need the Shangri-La temple on the Moon because they had everything set for Richtofen entering the MPD. Samantha entering was not intended, they had everything they needed - hence the need to go to Shangri-La to get the focusing stone wouldn't have existed, it only became a solution after Sam was sucked in and Richtofen needed a way to switch souls with her.

Phew... that's a mouthful.

FatedTitan · June 23, 2014

While it's interesting, you know that I've got a few problems with it.

1. I don't see how "Meanwhile..." can reference Nuketown Zombies. It just doesn't fit at all. If it was in the last panel, then I would understand. But putting it in the first panel directly after the Shangri-la comic screams that it is referencing Shangri-la. Now let's look at Shangri-la's loading screen.

This is directly before "Meanwhile..." which I believe is a reference to what is happening right here. We've got a giant twister, a possible wormhole, and a temple being thrown into the air. Then, "Meanwhile..."

We see the temple floating through space headed toward the Moon.

Now Lithium made the point that he believes the temple is somewhere on the Moon far away from Griffin Station. I see why you would say that, as the first and second panel seem to point toward that occurring. But why make them two panels if they are in the same time frame? Why not make it just one?

I believe that the panel with Griffin Station on it is at a different time period than the first panel with the temple. I believe the temple lands at Griffin Station long before Griffin Station is established.

Then we go to Germany. Richtofen and Shusta are finishing their tests and Richtofen teleports himself. He feels weightless, because he's on the Moon, but he can breathe without a spacesuit. This points to him being in an enclosed cavern of sorts. He teleports inside of the pyramid. Air is still trapped in the locked room. Then, after touching the MPD, Richtofen begins to hear voices, then is teleported to Shangri-la. He's teleported their because that's the point or origin of the MPD.

When Richtofen arrives back, he shows Shusta what he's found and they begin their plans to excavate and investigate this MPD. They bring excavators to the Moon, not in search of 115, but to get rid of the outer workings of the temple and create a good place for research to be done. This is why we find remnants of the dropa stones in the Biodome. The temple used to be here, but no longer is. Griffin Station is built around that temple and made to investigate the MPD.

2. We have no evidence of ever going back in time until Origins. And technically, we don't go back in time there either. It's more of a flashback, if not just a story told by Sam. We've always only moved forward in time. So why would we go to the future (Call of the Dead) then go back in time to the 60s for Moon? There's not enough evidence that that occurred. Not to mention that we have things like Die Rise that have calenders of 2025 in them. If the rockets went off in the 1960s and we have a destroyed city in China, why do they have calendars from 2025? The evidence in Die Rise points toward Moon occurring in 2025. We've also never seen 115 rip things from one time period into another time period, unless you count the DG-2 overloading the teleporter and sending the crew to the 60s/70s for Kino.

3. As you mentioned, how do we explain Marlton and the TranZit bus? This seems to point toward a 2025 setting as well.

Notice how, in their vagueness, they say that it is set after the events of the multiplayer map, but they don't say when the MP map was set. We can say the 60s, but are we positive on that?

@Slade this group of scientists/astronauts stepping out from the pyramid would make sense. Richtofen teleported inside of the pyramid. They didn't fly up to the Moon. Remember the entire operation was a secret. They teleported to the Moon through the teleporter Richtofen and Shusta and Groph had, then did their work getting everything set up from there. It wouldn't be hard to figure out you were in outer space before opening a door and letting the air out. When you feel weightless, you kinda of catch the hint really fast.

I will agree with you though that the NTZ loading screen is set in the future. What that man is doing harnessing all of that 115, I have no idea. But it definitely does not occur at the time of NTZ or before. Period.

That's one thing we have to remember with the comics. They aren't telling the story of what happens on the map while we are there (most of the time). They're telling the story of how this map got to where it is today now that we're on it. Why are we on the Moon? Because of what happened in the comic. Why are things like they are at Shangri-la? Because of what happened in the comic.

MysteryMachineX · June 23, 2014

So here are my thoughts.

When you're talking about the multiplayer map, one thing you overlook is the WHY of why a nuke is dropped to end the battle. It doesn't change much and is kind of a mystery, but you didn't mention it and I thought it was worth mentioning.

Also, with what you were saying about Nuketown's/Samantha's yellow-eyed zombies: I think it has been heavily referenced throughout the whole story that the Zombie Controllers are BAD AT THEIR JOB. Samantha was focused on the Moon. So while she was still in charge of the Zombies on the Moon, there were still things going on in Nuketown, which took up no more than the peripheral of her omnivision. And where her attention fades off is where the zombies' motives begin.

If you're going to use the meanwhile message, that means that while four astronauts are on the Moon with a temple, Nuketown is being blasted by a laser. It doesn't mean anything about Moon and Nuketown occurring simultaneously. It means those two event depictions do. Although we also do know the maps occur simultaneously.

The biggest problem with the whole idea of past, present, and future coming together makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't even pretend. Even things like Land of the Lost, which had the same premise, made sense. (Quantum mechanics makes it so that anything at any given moment has a chance to disappear. It ends up in the parallel mishmash dimension.)

I'd also like to point out the Bus Driver's use of the f word. He likely wasn't programmed to use that word. He made the choice. Choice differentiates a clever AI from a not-so-much one.

And the Bus Driver also mentions many classified places. While we don't see most of them, it proves they were on the itinerary for places he would visit. Pretty sure Area 51 was on that list too.

As for the Marlton bit. I think the only reasonable conclusion is that Marlton missed the bus. While it may have been at Nuketown, and Marlton was there too. He didn't make it on in time. Only later did he run into the same bus before TranZit.

And I think your thing about a "mysterious being" is pure speculation. Who what when where why. You've only got what and where, and the when I think is flimsy at best. If the crater being made in the comic is one separate from the one you see in the game, there should be two craters in the comic: the one being made and the much larger one having already been there.

There is a way it could work though. If you were to suppose that the new crater is so big that any smaller craters (even if they were pretty big) were wiped from existence or even just sight, then you could potentially place it in the far future. (This would however require re-assigning a nuke to the mushroom cloud in-game.) You could then suppose the Moon's loading screen occurs in the far future, which would explain the stone temple: constructed by the "O4" (they had nothing else to do but die)

I don't believe all that happened. But it would be an interesting way to re-interpret the story should evidence appear in the next game to necessitate it.

swappingspit · June 23, 2014

The green line represents the Vimana/Pyramid/Shangri-La Temple's trajectory. The red lines represent where the astronauts would be going. I think it's important to note that in the bottom left photo, there is a man made bridge of some sort within the same field of view as where the Pyramid landed - so it can't be a great distance from Griffen station.

Two things about this image:

1. Would it also be possible that the largest star in the lower frame is still the pyramid back on Earth? The orientation lines up assuming they're walking through that same crevice in the top frame, and that star looks pretty triangular. If that were the case, the meanwhile could simply be highlighting Shangri La and transitioning to show what was happening on the moon before they arrived.

2. Forgive me if this has been pointed out or it's common knowledge, but I've never noticed it before. That shadow in the top frame looks very much like a girl holding a doll.

Combine both these points, and my guess is that this panel is meant to say, "Our heroes continue to fight in a pyramid in the jungle. MEANWHILE, Samantha unleashes the zombie horde on Griffin Station."

PINNAZ · June 24, 2014

At work ATM, so I will have to come back & make a better post. Just wanted to post this about the Multiplayer map Nuketown in Black Ops.

Why are US & Spatnaz Soilders fighting there? No idea, just purely for gameplay purposes I imagine.

Inspiration for Nuketown

http://web.archive.org/web/20120403181636/http:/community.callofduty.com/community/call_of_duty_xp_blog/blog/2011/09/03/treyarch-reveals-the-black-ops-multiplayer-you-never-saw

Actually, it was built in two. Nuketown was a happy accident and was never officially planned. According to Dan Bunting, Vahn saw Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull one night and came in the next day saying “We need to do a map like this!” So the team looked at old nuclear test footage -- “we watched movies of towers been blown to smithereens and it was really inspiring.” The map was rapidly prototyped in two days while the creative fires were burning, and quickly became an official map. Dan said Nuketown’s evolution taught Treyarch a good lesson: “Ideas generate other ideas, and sometimes you have to let someone not do what they’re supposed to do.”

http://youtu.be/nznaDYN9czs

GRILL · June 24, 2014

@FatedTitan - Indeed I do, my friend. As always, I welcome any scrutiny because it may lead to new realizations on all accounts. And yeah, it's the off season, obviously I'm grabbing at straws haha. Regardless, we've delved into things that are interesting, but perhaps not realistic before (hint hint Ascension Poster ). I'll do my best to respond to your post, but it's going to be lonnnnnnnng:

1. "Meanwhile" is always referencing Moon (I'm not saying "meanwhile" references NTZ), but I'm just interpreting it differently for the sake of interpretation. If you look at my last sentence of the "meanwhile" section, I make it clear that I'm just interested in the word "meanwhile" itself considering that Nuketown happens meanwhile Moon happens.

When it comes to zombies, wordplay can be key - I'm just looking at it from another angle. A highly improbably angle that disregards common sense? Exactly. I'd almost say that there may be a missing page between Shangri-La & Moon, but it doesn't add up. The only difference is that there is a tear in the bottom of the "advertisements" page that would be the right page of the Shangri-La screen. Could literally represent a time tear, who knows?

Regardless, I'm arguing that because Shangri-La happens before Moon, and Moon being the next logical step - they wouldn't need to include "meanwhile" because it's exactly where we are going. "Meanwhile" lends itself to the inclusion of a new, or previous plot point, or even a reminder - we don't need a reminder of the next logical step.

In text, it would read like: "Joe then left to drive home. Meanwhile, Joe arrived at home."

ANYWAY my argument ^ is not towards your belief. I think it's completely valid to bring up that we don't know chronologically when the Shangri-La loading screen is happening - before we arrive, during (maybe just showing time warp), or after.

Also, I quite like the idea of the Moon loading screen's top 2 panels representing drastically different time periods. Your argument is solid, man.

2. 115 Displacement - in ORIGINS, we learn that Element 115 can displace things in a phenomenon dubbed "temporal displacement". I'm not arguing we go back in time; I'm arguing that we are in the 1960's, and because of the moon missiles collision with the large deposit of 115 - it essentially disrupted the fabric of time and space. Different areas from different time periods became intertwined (think "Buried"), and whatever time period TranZit/Green Run was in was the first in which Maxis could communicate with the N4 - which is why he says it's been decades, when for them the missile collision happened relatively recently.

You say that we've never seen 115 rips things from one time period to another, yet how you can you explain the perks, and recurring weapons. In Mob of the Dead we have a tommy gun from the prohibition age, and then a DSR 50 from 2025. We also have the perks themselves (asides from electric cherry) that are literally flickering in and out of existence because they have been *ripped* through time and space. As @ would want me to say: TEMPORAL DISPLACEMENT!

3. Marlton & TranZit bus - yeah, I mean I offered an explanation for each - but it's by no means right. Nor is this theory. It's all just an attempt at explaining it differently, because maybe some things might add up. Marlton could have been a radiation scientist from Groom Lake, maybe he knew too much and was locked in the bunker, "banished" as he says. How he gets from the bunker to TranZit, I do not know - but it would involve the 115 displacement blast, obviously. It also involves him loosing his memory, much like how Russman inexplicably lost his.

The bus, like I said - could have been a transportation system for the radiation scientists. No human driver because of the radiation contamination, strong enough to withstand a nuclear blast. This is all speculation, but what would even be the point of having a robot driver on a bus - if there was a human who could do it fine? There must be a purpose, and I'm saying the purpose of such a robot driver could be because of the high levels of radiation.

NTZ loading screen in the future - I'm glad we see eye to eye on this.

Thanks again for letting me know what you think.

~

@ - thanks for sharing your thoughts good sir. I always look forward to your scrutiny, because I always feel like I learn something new haha. I'll answer in the same fashion I did fated's:

Why the nuke is dropped - yeah, I hinted at something but I guess I didn't hint hard enough. I was saying, perhaps the scientists were performing an experiment by literally seeing if 115 could reanimate corpses that have been blown up in a nuclear strike. Why they would do such a thing, or what they would learn from it? That's the real question! But yeah, that's just one example - albeit an "off of the head" example.

@InfestLithium also suggested that the troops could have been fighting over something of value at the site. Once whomever owned said valuable thing found out it was in danger of being compromised, they basically had it nuked - to avoid anyone having it. What they didn't count on, was the corpse reanimating plague they'd release upon the unsuspecting public haha.

Zombie controllers bad at their job - excellent, and hilarious point. I wanna talk to the zombie controller manager, about this injustice!

"Meanwhile" message - yeah, I think I answered this above in regards to Fated. I was basically just exploring world play of "meanwhile", I don't really have much to back that up other then it's just a hunch. It makes much more sense to view it as you, and Fated, have said it (which I have known all along, but the off season makes me grasp at straws for theorizing).

I'll repeat what I said above though, if we are meant to take that "meanwhile" indicates transitioning from Shangri-La to Moon, then it wouldn't make sense unless it happens in a different time frame from the O4 transitioning from Shangri-La to Moon. It'd be like saying "Joe left to drive home. Meanwhile, Joe arrived at home." However, the time frames in general of both the loading screens are totally open to interpretation - and thus my perspective is purely speculative.

Past, Present, Future - yeah, it for sure doesn't make sense on paper - but when you get the temporal displacement of Element 115 on such a large scale level due to the missile blast, I'm suggesting that it essentially "broke" the world - like Russman said. Obviously, there are many ways to construe what a "broken" world is, I'm merely suggesting that he means time itself is broken, the world that we know is broken.

The Bus Driver - Your point is good, about the bus driver swearing. I agree that I don't think he would be programmed to say such things, and it's really just a flat out mystery to me why he even exists. What could his purpose be? If it's just to drive a bus, then why make him bullet proof? Is the bus route in a bad neighborhood? He purpose, to me, is an absolute brain boggle.

Marlton - Same thing as above, really just a mystery to me. That's part of the reason why I wanted to try and craft a theory, just to attempt to explain it in a way that makes most sense to me... if that makes sense.

"Mysterious Being" - Absolutely total speculation haha, this whole theory is just speculation! Unfortunately sometimes it seems in zombies that you are only given the "what and where" to work with. The problem is I don't know who this individual who seeks to harness the 115 deposit would be, I only know he's using the technology hinted at in ORIGINS. There's obviously a purpose, probably something along the lines of using the extracted 115 to power something. I just think that, if the nuketown loading screen was in the present - then they'd be wearing a present day CDC suit. The individual's suit looks very futuristic, and the 115 extraction drill looks futuristic - plus it looks as if it's attached to some sort of air ship, perhaps alien in nature.

Regarding the craters, yes that's actually what I imagined. The initial nuke of Nuketown just scratched the surface, and then the moon missile literally just wiped the surface clean - except for the point in which it hit.

I'm not sure if I follow you on "re-assigning" a nuke to the mushroom cloud in game, but if I understand you right - I'm pretty sure that that mushroom cloud in game IS from the initial nuke. The radiation scientists were sent out to investigate promptly after the explosion, they were attacked, sent out a distress signal - and the CDC/CIA agents on hand at Groom Lake answered. I have no idea how long a mushroom cloud sticks around, but obviously they couldn't have it dissipate throughout the rounds (even though it would be cool).

and also, yeah I never suggested that the O4 built the stone temple. Through responding and going over it, I've essentially arrived that I think they took a stone temple from Shangri-La to moon - but had to go down to Area 51 to grab the stone plates relating to Richtofen's grand scheme. Though I gather that you have a theory in relation to what we've talked through about them building a stone temple, and I'd love for you to elaborate on it. Are you saying that, in this "re-imagining" the O3+SAM built a stone temple after the events of Moon?

~

Thanks for your input @swappingspit , let me try and answer:

1. I've always looked at that largest star and wondered if it bares significance. You are spot on about the orientation, and that certainly should not be overlooked.

2. Yup that's common knowledge, haha. No worries though! It's honestly a fantastic image, and I love how her shadow looks - also I love the intrigue it causes, so many ways to interpret it.

And yeah, it's totally valid to draw from this that it's showing basically Samantha "killing them all" as we've heard in the radios. Thanks again man

~

@PINNAZ always a pleasure to have you comment, Doctor. Looking forward to what you'll bring to the table

Stop Mocking Me0 · July 7, 2014

Personally I'd like to believe it's set in 2015, but, others say it isn't...

Many believe that sense nuclear testing ended before the 2000s, it can't be then… But that's considering that :

A: This test is legal

B:This test is purposely detonated

But let's look at this:

A: Implying that the anti-nuclear testing agreement is taken into account, why would nuketown 2025 be constructed? It's clearly meant to be forged AFTER the agreement, but it also is a nuclear test facility.

B: The nuketown cutscene depicts what appears to be a pilot malfunction and machine error, leading to a disruption. It's possible the nuke takes place AFTER a previous nuke: Nuke goes off in the 60s, radiation is too dense to do anything about it, 55 years later, plane crashes carrying traces of experimental element 115, boom goes the dynamite, new explosion, right over the pit of the original.

It's highly logical that there was nuclear testing in the 60s…

It's known that this atomic cloud exists at the time of moon…

It appears that moon takes place directly before transit, die rise, and buried. Give or take 2 years max. These maps are defiantly set in the modern age of post 2000 (die rise buildings and poster)...

Nuketown 2025 is a thing, it was an actual map, meaning that nuclear testing is available in the modern age.

There is no evidence of there being only one explosion.

There is no evidence of the explosion being accidental or purposeful.

PortlyLlama80 · July 7, 2014

All I know for sure is that Tranzit has to take place directly after Moon. Considering Richtofen's comments about just getting used to the Aether.

As for Nuketown and Moon. I believe they take place in the 1960's. and I do not believe that Die Rise or anything takes place in 2025 either (They are just reused assets. especially the SDC zombies. reused assets!, and the 1996 makeup poster was just a reference to Treyarch's establishment)

Stop Mocking Me0 · July 8, 2014

All I know for sure is that Tranzit has to take place directly after Moon. Considering Richtofen's comments about just getting used to the Aether.

As for Nuketown and Moon. I believe they take place in the 1960's. and I do not believe that Die Rise or anything takes place in 2025 either (They are just reused assets. especially the SDC zombies. reused assets!, and the 1996 makeup poster was just a reference to Treyarch's establishment)

…. Could you elaborate more on why you think it happens in the 1960s, so far you've only explained why it doesn't have to be in 2025.

Tasha · November 17, 2014

@GRILL Recently played Nuketown Z again and thar reminded me of this thread. Nice read, bwains to you sir Grillos I.

Could you elaborate on why you think Nuketown's loading screen is set in the future? It doesn't make much sense to me. Merci.

GRILL · November 19, 2014

@GRILL Recently played Nuketown Z again and thar reminded me of this thread. Nice read, bwains to you sir Grillos I.

Could you elaborate on why you think Nuketown's loading screen is set in the future? It doesn't make much sense to me. Merci.

@ thanks for them bwains,GIRLL.

Elaborate? why yes, yes I can. [cracks knuckles] Please pardon the rambling, but it's quite hard to respond to such a question without doing so. Oh also, don't be surprised if this happens to you :

"It doesn't make much sense to me" <----- this is a perfect place to start.

The whole reason I made this thread is because the Nuketown Zombies loading screen made no sense to me. The only true link between any past story elements is the 115 Extraction Drill, which apparently was technology accessible enough to be made in the early 1900's (however we really don't know what the hell ORIGINS is - and we don't know if ORIGINS occurs in the same timeline/dimension as Nuketown Zombies).

Here are the factors that drove me to believe that the loading screen occurs in the future (also I'm using future loosely, all I'm really getting at is that I think it happens after the events of Nuketown Zombies):

(please click here for a zoomable larger version of the loading screen if you want a closer look at what I'm talking about)

1. - Okay so here we have a 115 Drilling Device drilling a crater. Presumably, this is the crater from the 115 rocket that happens after Nuketown Zombies (because why would a 115 Drilling Device be needed for a nuclear crater?). The act of drilling the 115 crater can only occur once the 115 rocket collides with the earth, hence what's going on in the loading screen is in the near or distant future following the events of Nuketown Zombies.

+ The sky is blue, in Nuketown Zombies the sky is incredibly dark - and would only be made darker by the 115 rocket that comes at the end and seemingly blows it all to kingdom come. This means that whatever we are seeing in the loading screen must be happening well after the smoke and dust dissipated.

+ There is something MASSIVE attached to the 115 Drilling Device. A large space ship would be my first thought, considering it looks like it's just floating in mid air - but we've also had encounters with "larger then life" machines (such as the bucketwheel excavators from Moon) so it's hard to say for sure what is holding the 115 Extraction Drill in place:

2. - This being is wearing technology of a like we've never seen before. There are multiple breathing tubes coming from the helmet, it's certainly not the typical Government CDC suit - this is something different, futuristic, and possibly alien (in my opinion). This guy in the yellow jumpsuit is here for a purpose, he knows exactly where to go - what to do - how to work the extraction drill. This is an individual who perhaps is a time traveler, but whatever they are - they are well aware of what happened in Nuketown, and came prepared to get what they need.

+ Also, just realizing this now but there is without a doubt something (of possible importance) being reflected in yellow dude's helmet. Why do I see a Shangri-La temple? Perhaps I'm just seeing what I want to see, or what I think I might want to see... (this doesn't have anything to do with future stuff)

+ Also also, bubbles - anyone? Why bubbles? Seriously, the f***? (nothing to do with the future, either - sorry haha)

3. - Panel 3 is a mystery honestly. It looks as if the wing of a plane/spaceship, or perhaps the side of the giant structure holding up the 115 extraction device. When enlarged, you can clearly see a little squiggly square face on the ship - which means nothing, but is funny regardless.

+ In my humble opinion, Panel 3 is illustrating the spaceship peacing out after it's extracted all the 115 it needs. If you look at the negative space in the top left, it's dark blue - very "outer space".

tl;dr = There is a crater, so we know this is post Nuketown. There is a 115 extraction device, so we know the crater has 115 and probably was made by one of the 3 115 rocket's. The 115 rockets hit Nuketown Zombies after you die in gameplay, HENCE - the loading screen depicts events that happen after Nuketown Zombies (i.e. in "the future" to when you are actually playing on the map in-game).

~~~

Having broken this down for you (the best I can), I've come across a couple questions of my own for you all:

- why does this being need to be on the ground for the 115 extraction process? Why can't he just chill in his ship, and let the drill do it's thing?

- is this being absorbing the 115 himself, as well as the device? (bottom left of large left panel). this could be the reason why yellow dude is on the ground while the 115 is being extracted.

- is there more than one yellow-suit guy? It almost looks like 2 figures (below/slightly to the right of the red 1 in panel 1). I'd wager a spaceship/large machine large enough to have a 115 extraction device would require more than one operator.

- the gum packet, which has already been brilliantly explained by @MixMasterNut , seems to indicate that there is time travel involved. We have a very 1950's bazooka joe-esque gum pack, which is named after the Aztec mythological God of the Dead, slapped over a comic book showing some futuristic crazy spaceship mineral extraction. Is this simply breaking the 4th wall, or does it mean something larger? Does it literally reference cross-timelines with altered histories? Were said "histories" altered by time travelers interfering with fixed points in time? How does the Aztec God of the Dead wind up on a pack of gum, unless history "as we know it" gets severely f***ed?

This... is why it's hard to theorize about what "future" this loading screen exists in. With 115 being able to temporally displace anything in time, anything is possible. I could go in circles for hours - but at this point there is really is no way to explain the majority of elements that make up the zombies storyline.

Anyway - thanks again for causing me to dig deeper. It's always exciting to consider new aspects.

lead_psychopath · November 19, 2014