Next Gen zombies. What can we realistically expect?

[The Clay Bird]

PAP is a perk, just like Jug and wonder weapons. They are pretty easy to achieve, what they need to do, is cater for something that requires team work to achieve but a lot harder to do solo. They also need to try and cater for the high round players, maybe something that they need to do every 50 rounds or so that takes away from just trying to do the round quickly.

 

hmm. what kind of reception would a "challenge round" get a la the exo survival challenge rounds.  Something that if achieved would give you extra help of some sort, but if failed there was something actively working against you?

 

I mean it isn't very original, but it might be able to be implemented in a unique way in zombies...

[BestOfAllTime32]

I would really hope it wouldn't be something that entirely difficult. Im with mocking in that I think something akin to the staff upgrades might be appropriate. I think one main problem with zombies in BO2 is that it became far too tedious. Buried spending 40 minutes just getting things set up on round 1. Mob of the Dead having to literally complete a side quest just to PaP. Don't get me started on Tranzit. I think it would be just fine if it were a little easier and faster to accomplish things, but have it still be difficult in the end game.

@clay bird, I kind of agree with you. Nothing was overly hard, just took a really long time. I just feel that if there was ever going to be a second tier PAP, it would need to be difficult to achieve, or it would be easy, and for all purposes useless.

If it's hard to get, it can be a legitimate upgrade from the already upgraded weapons. Taking the Lamentation to an upgraded RPD level ammo/clip, and keep the same quick reloading clip, movement speed. Obviously a power increase.

Where as if it's easy to get, then it should reflect the amount of effort put into it. If it takes 10 minutes and little effort to get, it should only increase the power.

Also a second PAP brings in an interesting dilemma for 3arc to maintain wonder weapon balance. As it is now, with the exception of a few WW's, the WW's have been pretty great for the first 40 rounds, and then they start to lose their effectiveness.

But with a second PAP, nobody is going to waste the time to use the second PAP on their WW if it doesn't add a significant amount of damage, say taking it from 40 to 50 osk. But if they make an ice staff level WW again, then second PAPing that, might just make it last literally forever.

I want to feel powerful, but not overpowered. I don't want to be under powered either, it's an interesting balance, one that I self impose depending on the map.

Edit: @mocking, the only problem with that is, it would take an extraordinary amount of extra time to PAP. Team of 4, I go to PAP, nobody else can PAP until I have my weapon, or the time limit runs out (assuming it's a randomly generated location the weapon shows up in). I pick up my first weapon, total trip, let's say 2 minutes per person, per weapon, total of 16 minutes for the entire team to PAP. Compared to the maybe 5 minutes it would take under the other systems.

Edited January 7, 2015 by BestOfAllTime32

[Speedo Cola]

I don't want a second PAP. Too overpowered in my opinion. And not interesting.

I liked the Acid gat kit from MOTD. Something like that is what I would prefer. Maybe increasing the damage slightly, but really just changing the use of the weapon. Stuff like that. Tactical uses make the game interesting...

And obviously they couldn't make the effect unique on every single weapon, however, say there was a fire upgrade. Some good guns would have special tactical uses, like say a wildfire effect on zombies, while others would just shoot flaming bullets that burned a zombie to the ground. Some would have the same flaming bullet effect, but be stronger and burn the zombie faster. 

[Stop Mocking Me0]

I don't want a second PAP, but I would like a PAP machine that would progressively give you better attachments. 

 

Take the M16 for example: 

Starts with a grenade launcher, PAP again and it swaps the grenade launcher for a galvanized-bayonet, again for a wonder waffe-mini (holds 3 shots, but will kill three at max zombies on any round), again to get an underbarrel ray gun (holds 20 shots, works like a regular ray-gun), again to get the max level: The thunder-buss: It launches a sound wave that blows zombies away like the thunder gun or subsurface resonator, but also only holds 3 shots, use them wisely. 

 

Of course some weapons will not include this, like the Mustang and Sally, or the map's wonder weapon, or the ray gun. 

[Electric Jesus]

I think making it easy to access trivializes it. We've had it for years now but that doesn't make it less effective. We just take it for granted. I think it should require effort or some special activity to access, but not to the point of being tedious or dominating your strategy for the whole game. Like MotD and moon had to be coordinated by the whole team. Kino on the other hand can easily be accessed by one person, but it is more efficient and safe to bring the whole team. I like that PaP incentive.

[The Clay Bird]

I don't want a second PAP. Too overpowered in my opinion. And not interesting.

I liked the Acid gat kit from MOTD. Something like that is what I would prefer. Maybe increasing the damage slightly, but really just changing the use of the weapon. Stuff like that. Tactical uses make the game interesting...

And obviously they couldn't make the effect unique on every single weapon, however, say there was a fire upgrade. Some good guns would have special tactical uses, like say a wildfire effect on zombies, while others would just shoot flaming bullets that burned a zombie to the ground. Some would have the same flaming bullet effect, but be stronger and burn the zombie faster. 

 

 

I don't want a second PAP, but I would like a PAP machine that would progressively give you better attachments. 

 

Take the M16 for example: 

Starts with a grenade launcher, PAP again and it swaps the grenade launcher for a galvanized-bayonet, again for a wonder waffe-mini (holds 3 shots, but will kill three at max zombies on any round), again to get an underbarrel ray gun (holds 20 shots, works like a regular ray-gun), again to get the max level: The thunder-buss: It launches a sound wave that blows zombies away like the thunder gun or subsurface resonator, but also only holds 3 shots, use them wisely. 

 

Of course some weapons will not include this, like the Mustang and Sally, or the map's wonder weapon, or the ray gun. 

 

 

Consider this though.  What is the endgame of every single zombies map since Der Reise?  WonderWeapon, Ray Gun/M&S , point gun if you have MuleKick, and monkeys/gersch

 

 

Nobody rocks The MTAR, KSG, and Ballista in Origins... Or the PM63, HS10, and FN FAL in Kino.  

 

The point of a 2nd PaP in my explanation isn't to make it over powered and make 100 rounds easier (its already easy enough if you have the time and the right weapons)

It is to have the 2nd PaP add enough to the other non WW type weapons so that they are still viable options albeit not as good as the WWs.  Just my opinion.  

[BrayJayTheZombSlaya]

Well, I just lost a comment that I spent an hour writing for this post. Carry on. *Tears stream down face*

[Electric Jesus]

Well, I just lost a comment that I spent an hour writing for this post. Carry on. *Tears stream down face*

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KCy7lLQwToI

Also I would agree with you on that clay. That's the point of a wonder weapon. You should always want to end up with wonder weapons. Double-pap should just serve to delay the inevitable necesity of depending on them. It goes back to what I said about gameplay styles. Ask 50 people what their favorite non wonder weapon is, and you'll get 50 different answers. Yet if you watch those 50 peopleplay they will all end up with an LMG. All weapons should be good enough in their own way so that if you have a preference or specialized skill you can use it to your advantage. High skill, high reward. Double pap would to an extent slow the de-evolution of unique gameplay styles, because you could still rock your favorite gun in higher rounds.

[superstudmuffin]

I don't want a second PAP. Too overpowered in my opinion. And not interesting.

I liked the Acid gat kit from MOTD. Something like that is what I would prefer. Maybe increasing the damage slightly, but really just changing the use of the weapon. Stuff like that. Tactical uses make the game interesting...

And obviously they couldn't make the effect unique on every single weapon, however, say there was a fire upgrade. Some good guns would have special tactical uses, like say a wildfire effect on zombies, while others would just shoot flaming bullets that burned a zombie to the ground. Some would have the same flaming bullet effect, but be stronger and burn the zombie faster.

I did, accidentally traded my upgraded staff for the ballista once on a dig. Holds head in shame. Made the round redicously hard. Lol

 

 

I don't want a second PAP, but I would like a PAP machine that would progressively give you better attachments. 

 

Take the M16 for example: 

Starts with a grenade launcher, PAP again and it swaps the grenade launcher for a galvanized-bayonet, again for a wonder waffe-mini (holds 3 shots, but will kill three at max zombies on any round), again to get an underbarrel ray gun (holds 20 shots, works like a regular ray-gun), again to get the max level: The thunder-buss: It launches a sound wave that blows zombies away like the thunder gun or subsurface resonator, but also only holds 3 shots, use them wisely. 

 

Of course some weapons will not include this, like the Mustang and Sally, or the map's wonder weapon, or the ray gun.

 

 

Consider this though.  What is the endgame of every single zombies map since Der Reise?  WonderWeapon, Ray Gun/M&S , point gun if you have MuleKick, and monkeys/gersch

 

 

Nobody rocks The MTAR, KSG, and Ballista in Origins... Or the PM63, HS10, and FN FAL in Kino.  

 

The point of a 2nd PaP in my explanation isn't to make it over powered and make 100 rounds easier (its already easy enough if you have the time and the right weapons)

It is to have the 2nd PaP add enough to the other non WW type weapons so that they are still viable options albeit not as good as the WWs.  Just my opinion.

[Speedo Cola]

 

Well, I just lost a comment that I spent an hour writing for this post. Carry on. *Tears stream down face*

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KCy7lLQwToI

Also I would agree with you on that clay. That's the point of a wonder weapon. You should always want to end up with wonder weapons. Double-pap should just serve to delay the inevitable necesity of depending on them. It goes back to what I said about gameplay styles. Ask 50 people what their favorite non wonder weapon is, and you'll get 50 different answers. Yet if you watch those 50 peopleplay they will all end up with an LMG. All weapons should be good enough in their own way so that if you have a preference or specialized skill you can use it to your advantage. High skill, high reward. Double pap would to an extent slow the de-evolution of unique gameplay styles, because you could still rock your favorite gun in higher rounds.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm the only one, but I think some weapons have to suck. It's the point of the mystery box. You either get a decent gun, something you'll get rid of, or no gun at all. If every weapon was useful, no one would care what they got as long as it was a weapon.

[Slade]

Well, I just lost a comment that I spent an hour writing for this post. Carry on. *Tears stream down face*

@BrayJayTheZombSlaya As you type your post, our Forum's text editor automatically saves your post while you write, so that if something happens, you can always restore your post when you reload the page.

 

[The Clay Bird]

 

Well, I just lost a comment that I spent an hour writing for this post. Carry on. *Tears stream down face*

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KCy7lLQwToI

Also I would agree with you on that clay. That's the point of a wonder weapon. You should always want to end up with wonder weapons. Double-pap should just serve to delay the inevitable necesity of depending on them. It goes back to what I said about gameplay styles. Ask 50 people what their favorite non wonder weapon is, and you'll get 50 different answers. Yet if you watch those 50 peopleplay they will all end up with an LMG. All weapons should be good enough in their own way so that if you have a preference or specialized skill you can use it to your advantage. High skill, high reward. Double pap would to an extent slow the de-evolution of unique gameplay styles, because you could still rock your favorite gun in higher rounds.

 

 

bingo!  Also in co-op games, since i assume not every future map will be like origins where there are 4 legit wonder weapons, it allows the 3 players who didn't get the WW to upgrade their weaponry so it would be legit up into the upper 30's and even possibly up to 50 rounds

[The Clay Bird]

 

 

Well, I just lost a comment that I spent an hour writing for this post. Carry on. *Tears stream down face*

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KCy7lLQwToI

Also I would agree with you on that clay. That's the point of a wonder weapon. You should always want to end up with wonder weapons. Double-pap should just serve to delay the inevitable necesity of depending on them. It goes back to what I said about gameplay styles. Ask 50 people what their favorite non wonder weapon is, and you'll get 50 different answers. Yet if you watch those 50 peopleplay they will all end up with an LMG. All weapons should be good enough in their own way so that if you have a preference or specialized skill you can use it to your advantage. High skill, high reward. Double pap would to an extent slow the de-evolution of unique gameplay styles, because you could still rock your favorite gun in higher rounds.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm the only one, but I think some weapons have to suck. It's the point of the mystery box. You either get a decent gun, something you'll get rid of, or no gun at all. If every weapon was useful, no one would care what they got as long as it was a weapon.

 

 

 

Well the non-Pap version would still suck.  and the PaP version would still be far out-performed by better weapons, but the second PaP would reward you for surviving long enough with the crappy weapon to be able to upgrade it again and get a really nice formidable weapon. (much like the reward for holding onto your 1911 long enough to upgrade to M&S)

[Guest]

 

 

 

Well, I just lost a comment that I spent an hour writing for this post. Carry on. *Tears stream down face*

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KCy7lLQwToI

Also I would agree with you on that clay. That's the point of a wonder weapon. You should always want to end up with wonder weapons. Double-pap should just serve to delay the inevitable necesity of depending on them. It goes back to what I said about gameplay styles. Ask 50 people what their favorite non wonder weapon is, and you'll get 50 different answers. Yet if you watch those 50 peopleplay they will all end up with an LMG. All weapons should be good enough in their own way so that if you have a preference or specialized skill you can use it to your advantage. High skill, high reward. Double pap would to an extent slow the de-evolution of unique gameplay styles, because you could still rock your favorite gun in higher rounds.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm the only one, but I think some weapons have to suck. It's the point of the mystery box. You either get a decent gun, something you'll get rid of, or no gun at all. If every weapon was useful, no one would care what they got as long as it was a weapon.

 

 

 

Well the non-Pap version would still suck.  and the PaP version would still be far out-performed by better weapons, but the second PaP would reward you for surviving long enough with the crappy weapon to be able to upgrade it again and get a really nice formidable weapon. (much like the reward for holding onto your 1911 long enough to upgrade to M&S)

 

 

To be honest can we actually envision seeing pap 2? I feel like its just complicating things for what can be realistically expected in next gen zombies

[The Clay Bird]

 

 

To be honest can we actually envision seeing pap 2? I feel like its just complicating things for what can be realistically expected in next gen zombies

 

 

They have done it often in custom WaW maps right?  Maybe its not the direction they will go, but i'd much rather them go that way as opposed to expand buildables like the trample steam  and sub-surface resonator which mad Buried so easy you didnt even have to fire a bullet.  I think they need to re-focus and go back to basics, instead of making it more complicated.  Like i've said before, I think they need to go back to basics and make the zombies experience play a little bit faster,  Mob of the Dead, Buried, and Origins were all so tedious getting set up with the best weapons, it 2 hours before you can actually start burning through rounds,  They need to eliminate the bank, and make the game play more organically like it did in WaW and Black Ops 1.  My friends and I rarely will play a co-op game on BO2 because none of us have enough time to set aside 4 hours just to make a zombies run

[Electric Jesus]

@Speedo Cola I see your point and I agree to an extent. Obviously there are the best weapons for general use in zombies, but I mean all weapons should be viable for a specific unique purpose. Look at multiplayer for example. Your team of 4 could have one guy rocking a DSR 50, one guy with an AN-94, one guy with an R870 MCS, and one with just a knife. Sure the AN-94 is probably the best of those 4 for general use, but if someone is a particularly good sniper or shotgunner or blader, then that respective weapon would be just as good as the AN in their hands. You know? If in zombies you're an SMG enthusiast, get ready for disappointment, because they're literally just not strong enough to hold up to high rounds as well as ARS or LMGs. Double pap would allow you to rely on your preference and specific skills by keeping a preferred gun longer. Sure a pistol isn't as good as an LMG in general, but if you're a goddamn surgeon with a pistol that would give you an opportunity to be just as deadly in a more personally enjoyable way.

[Guest]

 

 

 

To be honest can we actually envision seeing pap 2? I feel like its just complicating things for what can be realistically expected in next gen zombies

 

 

They have done it often in custom WaW maps right?  Maybe its not the direction they will go, but i'd much rather them go that way as opposed to expand buildables like the trample steam  and sub-surface resonator which mad Buried so easy you didnt even have to fire a bullet.  I think they need to re-focus and go back to basics, instead of making it more complicated.  Like i've said before, I think they need to go back to basics and make the zombies experience play a little bit faster,  Mob of the Dead, Buried, and Origins were all so tedious getting set up with the best weapons, it 2 hours before you can actually start burning through rounds,  They need to eliminate the bank, and make the game play more organically like it did in WaW and Black Ops 1.  My friends and I rarely will play a co-op game on BO2 because none of us have enough time to set aside 4 hours just to make a zombies run

 

 

I agree with it being more simpler but I dont think a Pap 2 is the way to go. Buildables I think will come back just in a better format and I feel like they will try and give more stuff for players to set up and stuff. Bank really needs to go, I am fine with the fridge though as long as it isnt easily accessible. I always find BO2 is much easier than the other games, I dont like that I like struggling a bit in zombies what is the fun of being able to just kill a zombie with a wumderwaffe on round 1?

[The Clay Bird]

Yeah, but I hope they actually make less stuff for people to set up.  I know a ton of people like the zombie shield and tramplesteam, but I think they take away more than they add.

[Guest]

Yeah, but I hope they actually make less stuff for people to set up.  I know a ton of people like the zombie shield and tramplesteam, but I think they take away more than they add.

 

I think zombie shields a definite comeback but 3arch hates the trample steam. Its an easy exploitable thing. In Buried the characters all say bad things about it so that the player will not want to use it.

[Lenne]

Moon had by far my favorite way of using the Pack-A-Punch.

 

So you actually like forced teamwork?

 

Here I was thinking I actually liked you.

 

Kidding of course.

 

But seriously this whole forced teamwork and mandatory EE stuff has to go.

 

It just adds more fuel to the fire of frustration when playing with randoms.

 

There is a reason why I have never played with randoms on BOII.

[Tasha]

@Lenne Touché, bitch. Oops, forgot to mention I never played Moon with randoms because of how you needed every one in the team to do something in order to get to PaP, same with Shang. Good luck getting randoms to stay in one spot.

 

Get rid of the forced teamwork nonsense, add a mute button to whoever's trapped in some realm and needs your help, and things would be soooo much better.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Yeah if trayarch learned ANYTHING from BO2 its that we HATE being told to do the easter egg. The whiny 10 year old is enough, we don't need samantha and maxis doing it too!

[Hells Warrrior]

To be honest, I'm a co-op player and I like team work, team work in co-op is essential imho.

 

I don't mind the EE steps being advised and that we need to do things, I understand the frustration to others in it though.

[Guest]

Yeah if trayarch learned ANYTHING from BO2 its that we HATE being told to do the easter egg. The whiny 10 year old is enough, we don't need samantha and maxis doing it too!

 

*Treyarch, also I dont mind being told what to do in the EEs as long as it isnt American Samantha. German Samantha would have been cooler and could be more sinister. 

[Lenne]

To be honest, I'm a co-op player and I like team work, team work in co-op is essential imho.

 

I don't mind the EE steps being advised and that we need to do things, I understand the frustration to others in it though.

 

Teamwork is great but it should come naturally and not because you have to do it.

 

More often than not you just find a terrible group of randoms which can't even cope with round 10+ and while that may be not so bad in maps like Kino it certainly is in Shang and Moon. Let alone the fact that you basically have to pray to Jimmy in order for the other three to have mics.

 

I do also think it is fun to do these mini objectives in order to get to PaP, as long as you play with friends of course.