Confusing the story to save the game.

[Tattoo247]

I think a lot about how to make topics that have never been discussed, and that is HARD, but I think I've thought of one so I know the title isn't very forthcoming so I'll begin to explain.

 

This is a place to discuss, and include your ideas on why certain things are the way they are, in game, and in the story of zombies. Also, it's a place to debate on whether or not some things can be rationalized past the point of "just so the game is playable". Still confused? I'll give an example. 

 

It's no secret that Samantha wanted Richtofen and more or less, the rest of the group to die during their efforts to reach the Moon base. So why did she produce power to each area the players visit? Why were there max ammos, nukes, insta kills ect ect..? If you hated someone so badly, you wanted to see them ripped apart would you really give them a Thundergun? Well it's simple, the game cant exist if it's too hard.

Like starting the game on round 20, it's next to impossible for a casual, or new player to stand a chance, this would "break" the game and I highly doubt there would be as large of a zombie fan base. In the story, having such a strong surge of zombies would have ended the lore on Verruct, it would have simply been too hard to fight off so many zombies, with such a high amount of hit points.

So we overlook the fact that we are being helped by the very person that wants us dead, that makes zero sense to me, but I am happy that it's the way it all works.

 

So what are some of the things we as players accept, and overlook, that in reality, just makes it feel like a video game?

Edited February 1, 2015 by Tattoo247

[Stop Mocking Me0]

What many people don't realize is that this may be trayarch's plan. 

 

 

Make an amazing story, pulverize it, pull it back twice as amazing and people will fall in love with it again... It's the same way people reward you with candy-crush-saga-style reward: Sometimes the reward needs to wait so the reactant will gain twice the response. 

[Guest]

What many people don't realize is that this may be trayarch's plan. 

 

 

Make an amazing story, pulverize it, pull it back twice as amazing and people will fall in love with it again... It's the same way people reward you with candy-crush-saga-style reward: Sometimes the reward needs to wait so the reactant will gain twice the response. 

 

Ka-boom! That was my mind. If they did do that I would be amazed but I really thought MotD was good and Origins, to me as a fan was almost perfect. But I think the ending was not perfect because they still wanted some people to be a bit disappointed and expecting less than they will get.

 

 

Anyways, I have two things I want to talk about to do with this subject. First off is the thing about Sam wanting you dead and supplyign you with utilities. In Moon she keeps tlaking about the game and that Richtofen cannot play it right, I have a theory that the Origins ending is at the beginning of the story, confusingly but it works in this game. They obviously differed on how they played and when Richtofen got in control he gave them Blue eyes and played how he wanted. Sam wanted to kill the group, while have fun with them, while manipulate them- Origins- but I think she is also not as powerful as you may think. She may only be able to control a group of zombies at a time, making GP work and making the fact you arent swarmed by millions of zombies at once work. Agartha seems to be able to make you control everything though. This means that in the end of Buried, the reason we see the N4 dead in the future and ROUND INFINITY lol is because they now have that power. Also notice round infinity is black and white, what colour eyes do they have? Ohh im happy with that theory I just made. Also Samantha is in Agartha in Origins but there arent a population of zombies, only the soldiers and those in the mound who are beyond her reach seemingly. I dont suppose any who is interested could make a post on this theory and make it better than I could, as I would jumble it up.

 

Now for a gameplay thing I want to discuss as well. Breaking the fourth wall. They do it a lot, especially the O4. Why do they do this? Obviously it is just humor in 3arch but in the story and in game, does it fit in anywhere? Are they supposed to be talking to anyone aside from you the player?

[Tattoo247]

Good points, you may be right, perhaps they can only control so many at once. But in the sense of having the usual amount in game, what is it, 23 zombies on screen or something? It would make sense to say she can only control 23 zombies at once, thus implementing the restrictions of the game into the story, genius.

 

However, the dogs and monkies don't seem to be controllable, we know the hell hounds are more or less from...hell  thus having a little more power over their own choices, but why would the monkies, who are obviously infused with 115 able to act on their own? We've all seen it, a lander with fall, two or three monkies come out, and all run in different directions, pulled towards different perks. They seem to have a mind of their own, as zombies attack the closest thing to them, as a unit. Monkies however, will land right near PHD flopper, and run all the way to Mule kick if they choose.

 

 

As far as breaking the 4th wall, it's a wasted space of quotes to me, it has nothing to do with the story, I really doubt the players are aware of facebook, as well as having someone control them (Dempsey constantly yells at you for ammo for example).

[Guest]

Good points, you may be right, perhaps they can only control so many at once. But in the sense of having the usual amount in game, what is it, 23 zombies on screen or something? It would make sense to say she can only control 23 zombies at once, thus implementing the restrictions of the game into the story, genius.

 

However, the dogs and monkies don't seem to be controllable, we know the hell hounds are more or less from...hell  thus having a little more power over their own choices, but why would the monkies, who are obviously infused with 115 able to act on their own? We've all seen it, a lander with fall, two or three monkies come out, and all run in different directions, pulled towards different perks. They seem to have a mind of their own, as zombies attack the closest thing to them, as a unit. Monkies however, will land right near PHD flopper, and run all the way to Mule kick if they choose.

 

 

As far as breaking the 4th wall, it's a wasted space of quotes to me, it has nothing to do with the story, I really doubt the players are aware of facebook, as well as having someone control them (Dempsey constantly yells at you for ammo for example).

 

Okay I like your viewpoints, very interesting. Well the hellhounds are the Spawn of Fluffy (That is comedy gold right there) Who seemingly are in the millions, but something interesting with them and the monkeys is there eye colour... it is red. Now I know in MotD people say it may be Satan, or Stanley/ Brutus. But maybe in Grief, the voice is the Warden who is a ghost, as seen in the news papers in his office, but I think that is something cut from the story. Red to me signifies that they arent controlled. The zombies in MotD do eat the players in the intro cutscene, but in game I believe that they just kill as a gameplay thing, I know people may say that could go for all maps, it could, but I believe its just a matter of adding something like that. The monkeys could have possibly been too far out of Sams reach in space, or what if her control is stopped when they attack, hence no zombies? The monkeys are also very clever, disable perks, make you an easier target, kill you. They even throw grenades back, maybe the 115 has an affect to make minds stronger? Anyways would Samantha take over her puppies and make them do her bidding, when they are already loyal enough to do that? Nope she wouldnt. You have to think about her mindset sometimes.

[DrVonstool]

If we create the concept of this all being an imagination we can create a comprehensible explanation to the entire game. I have some points that I need to place in the field, so this may be a bit winded.

 

First off, I'd like to point out the big concept of two universes colliding. The "Agartha" concept and the real world. If we look at it from a perspective of childhood toys and games of the sort, we can surmise that it was always a game and the ending to Origins was simply a huge twist that probably, most certainly, twisted all our panties in a bunch. Remember, the whole mode took off when we noticed a zombie who screamed "SAM!" The game mode was structured on a fluke of a recording.

Not only that, the maps that we were given in World at War were all remakes of existing multiplayer maps, excluding Shi No Numa. To my knowledge that was an entirely original map.

The point is, the creators as well as the community shaped a universe of imagination that sky rocketed into the idea of having its own video game. The ending to origins, on a much higher level of understanding, is a metaphor for how big this small, children's game became.

In my eyes, the old maps were not 100% story driven, obviously, but as we put dots together the maps and reasoning behind the maps became less and less clear. This is how a good story works. You start with a small concept and write the story as you go along. However, this process has a lot of backfires in terms of story because previous lines will debunk future lines and vice versa. The best way for the community and the zombies story to be cleared of any conceptual discharge is to either go back and remaster all the maps for an in depth look as to why we were there, what the story was at the time, and to give us a better understanding of the story OR they can say that it was in fact a game and the colliding of universes was the collision of the Imagination and the Real World. My evidence is simply all the references to real world events like Tranzit. This map was based on a concept called Green Run in which the U.S. government released fission products into a local area. This explains the mass amount of fog in Tranzit and such. The map also had references to things like HAARP, Bohemian Grove, and don't get me started on all the Illuminati symbolism. The underlying story on top of the zombies is global domination. Something conspiracy theorists sink their teeth into once every full moon. Anyways, the next game could make or break the story. It could either explain the entire story using community ideas, or ideas of their own, or they could relate everything we have done to real world events which we will see as we continue the story with the kids at the ending to Origins. I would like to see the zombies world collide with the real world. An example would be, the kids go down to see Maxis and he's talking to say... Adam Weishaup. Far fetched, but an example is an example. They talk for a couple of minutes about things like Bohemian Grove, Human Sacrifice, things these two kids have never thought of before. The story continues and yadda yadda, the kids are done and go upstairs to play some more. This is where the game starts. We reenact what the kids imagine to be taking place in the real world with their toys and trinkets. The kids go to bed, wake up and see their father playing with reality in his new inventions, experiments, what have you. Wash, rinse, repeat. Now, the story can't be as shitty as my explanation but the point should be clear to you, the reader.

 

My second bite was the whole understanding of the game. I feel lost in certain areas but maybe I'm not. Some on here are concerned about why Samantha wants to help you and such. Even though Richtofen hates the shite out of Samantha and vice voisa. If we look at it again, from an imaginative perspective, the reason she helps is only to progress the story. What type of fun game could you play with your siblings that has no progress or story. The point is to create a special universe that has these special characters of random importance completing out of this world tasks for the amusement of the player. Now if we look at the specific events that take place like Call of the Dead or even Mob of the Dead. Call of the Dead had someone who has a big imagination. Someone who filmed a black and white movie starring a black man who never expected his idea to reach the limits of popularity as it has today. It's as if the story is right in front of us. Some could say that the kids watched the movies and wanted to create something big as well or you can look at it from a metaphorical view. The map Call of the Dead started out as a normal emotionless film set, as if nothing that was about to happen was planned and suddenly Director George is being carried away by a zombie. Someone was high when that happened. No explanation, no clear reason, it all just happened and is happening and you are going along without question. You found the guys who were in previous maps and decide to help them because we all have hard ons for Richtofen's gay innuendos. Mob of the Dead could be more of a challenge to explain. This map could simply detail the whole zombie world as a whole. Each map is a never ending cylce of kill, reload, kill, reload, new weapon, kill, reload, repeat. I feel that this map was a calling to end the cycle of never ending zombie slaying. It was the first of its kind and still is a wonderful map to play on. On the other, less sweaty hand, Mob of the Dead could have simply been foreshadowing. All stories must end even beyond what you thought was the end. The characters within this map thought that by escaping, you would end your misery. To their dismay, the end was far from reach. Electric chairs become apparent, the end is nigh once again. But no, to their dismay, the end is once again far from reach. As if the emotions of the characters can match the emotion behind the ending to Origins. That the end seemed so close but once again far from our pathetic hands. 

 

In closing, my thoughts are in fact ALL OVER THE PLACE. Bear with the spastic thoughts of mine. To make it clear as day, the story is a reflection of the world as we know it, being told through a game because no one wants to go research Green Run just because some jack ass doesn't like the government. No they will research Green Run if it has to do with a zombie story and a scientist who is obsessed with long rods. The concept of the game is simple, to progress. The bombs and max ammos only exist to further your torment. If you ended your life right then and there, you wouldn't be frantically trying to survive by the skin of your teeth. The same could be said about the real world. A lot of people are suffering but they trudge on for some odd reason that is unclear to all of existence.  I feel like my characters "The Gatsbys" can explain it best. "It's all a metaphor! You don't exist!" 

[Guest]

Deep... I think that is a beautiful way to look at the ending, I think the thing about the ending is it is symbolism for so much story wise and reality wise. I would like to just mention the idea of the ending and state a fact about the kids that too me makes it entirely possible to be plausible, Many peoples say that the kids could not come up with the idea behind the story, but I would completely deny that. As a child created wondrous ideas for stories when playing with toys until eventually I created an idea that was connected completed. Also the kids look older than at least 11 or 12 so yeah. I love this idea of a post by the way.

[DrVonstool]

I agree with you, Voyager. Kids are very special in terms of their mental capacity. It seems on the outside that they know nothing because they don't understand what humans have been made to assimilate to. On the inside, however, a universe is beginning to be created with its own laws and its own concepts of rules.

[Tattoo247]

Solid point on the reply to my last post, unfortunately I am fixing to be busy and can't read the rest until tomorrow. Loving the long responces though and I had never even considered the idea that all zombies can't spawn during a monkey round...I'll let that stew in my brain for a little bit.

[Guest]

I really am enjoying this post, I dont know if I will ever run out of ideas to discuss! So heres another one:

 

This is going to get confusing so I will try to make it as easy as possible by explaining a story line device that is used in zombies. The zombie story is contained within a time loop, we do not know what causes this loop but it is commonly used in sci-fi/ time travel stories such as this. Time loops usually happen over a small amount of time, minutes, hours, days? Groundhog day is a good example of this. But the one in this story is on a very large scale. You cannot just escape the time loop by going back and fourth in time as when you do this you create another part of the loop. Our characters seemingly forget what happens when they go through the loop, but some characters seemingly remember things. Such as Takeo and Samuel. In the Die Rise intro we see that everyone dies, but Russman specifically dies. Now looking at this as in game, they must be on a high round due to the zombies, also the appearance of the telecrawler, possibly it was the round they left Traznit? Anyways in one side of the EE you must reenact Russmans death. Though he resurrects due to game mechanics anyways, how do we know in the intro he would not have spawned back if the round was finished? So why do we have to let him die in the EE? Well there is an idea that some events in time cannot be changed and always have to happen, almost like a destiny thing. If they dont happen disastrous things can happen. Every game of Die Rise you end up technically dying, even leaving mean deaths.

 

What I am getting at is, are deaths in zombies linked to the loop and does every game technically count as canon due to the loop going around again? If this has confused anyone I can try explain it again easier.

[Tattoo247]

I've always thought of every match that way too.

 

A quote in Moon from Richtofen talks along the lines of "not in this reality at least" so back when I first heard that I came to the conclusion that he is aware that this "looping" is creating different time streams, whether they are relevant to the actual story I don't know, but their presence in the story is touched on at least, not even counting the events of MoTD.

 

I really am starting to think that they wanted us to be aware of this looping a long time ago, and perhaps MoTD would never have existed (or it's story) had we caught on sooner. Glad we didn't because MoTD and Origins are the only BO2 maps I can play at the moment without cringing lol.

 

Another useless thing in game that was never touched on, how do all these radios have power? The radios in the maps that usually fill in gaps of story were probably my favorite things about zombies when I first started playing, getting to hear the four marines take their final stand was probably the coolest thing at the time, but I never considered how they were operational, other than the fact that it's a video game and they can do whatever they want, just never tried to make a rational theory, perhaps they are powered by Samantha to try to jog the memories of Takeo, Tank and Nicolia in hopes to have them turn on Richtofen to kill him, but that's a pretty far stretch.

[Guest]

Hm, also Shangri La offers a verison of the loop but one of the biggest things is the Der Riese trailer, characters die and then are brought back, the loop resets. I also think the radios could have been created by somebody in 935 who managed to make them self sufficient, or at least so they can work the one time you use them. That would be interesting as that would account for why radios are scattered across maps, but where are their any in Buried? I know there wouldnt be radios in a western town but isnt it weird that their arent any? Anyways I cant wait for someone to think of another thing to discuss

[Tattoo247]

Half of me is worried that so much didn't get touched on in BO2 that we'll be playing the new four again, literally NO story on the flesh other than the TV broadcasts and a few quotes, I was pretty pumped to figure out their motives and then it just flopped.

 

Another overlooked meaningless thing in zombies, a bus that can drive on lava xD

[Guest]

Half of me is worried that so much didn't get touched on in BO2 that we'll be playing the new four again, literally NO story on the flesh other than the TV broadcasts and a few quotes, I was pretty pumped to figure out their motives and then it just flopped.

 

Another overlooked meaningless thing in zombies, a bus that can drive on lava xD

 

Oh the lava, I had been thinking about that last night and how it does not make sense in the slightest. Imagine if the lava pools meant you sunk and died? Also zombies should not be immune to them and should also fall in and burn.

 

Does anyone think the idea of coming back the next round after you die is GP or story? I think it is GP but I would love it if someone could explain it in the storyline, other that Sam bringing back to torment them

[Tattoo247]

Well in Die Rise we see them all die, and get respawned. So it's probably a quick revive, plus a memory wipe that keeps them from noticing. Unlike in MoTD where they take noticed of their deaths, I can't recall anyone other than those players remembering dying.

 

 

The lava I would imagine, was just to be overlooked in terms of how lava really works, and in truth, there are forms of lava that can be walked over, quickly but it's still traversable. A bus on the other hand, would sink, the tires would burst and it would begin it's slow process of melting.

 

Or maybe it's 115 infused rubber that is backed by 115 air and that's why HIM likes to dry hump the side of the bus at times  

[Guest]

Well in Die Rise we see them all die, and get respawned. So it's probably a quick revive, plus a memory wipe that keeps them from noticing. Unlike in MoTD where they take noticed of their deaths, I can't recall anyone other than those players remembering dying.

 

 

The lava I would imagine, was just to be overlooked in terms of how lava really works, and in truth, there are forms of lava that can be walked over, quickly but it's still traversable. A bus on the other hand, would sink, the tires would burst and it would begin it's slow process of melting.

 

Or maybe it's 115 infused rubber that is backed by 115 air and that's why HIM likes to dry hump the side of the bus at times  

 

XD, well the reason they come back in Die Rise is because of the loop resetting. That is why the map is also closed off.

[Tattoo247]

In all honesty, it's probably my least favorite of the BO2 maps just because it's the easiest for me other than Buried, and the only reason I like Buried just a little more is because of the atmosphere, and ofcourse shooting cowboy hats off zombie heads never gets old.

 

On the subject of Die Rise though, it's funny that we overlook how far a zombie can jump. It was never stated that giving them 115 made them stronger, but we see them make insane jumps, and on CoTD, climb out of the ground that is covered in ice. That may also be explainable as to why they hit so hard, I mean I've been slapped before, multiple times and it never made me fall down lol

[Guest]

In all honesty, it's probably my least favorite of the BO2 maps just because it's the easiest for me other than Buried, and the only reason I like Buried just a little more is because of the atmosphere, and ofcourse shooting cowboy hats off zombie heads never gets old.

 

On the subject of Die Rise though, it's funny that we overlook how far a zombie can jump. It was never stated that giving them 115 made them stronger, but we see them make insane jumps, and on CoTD, climb out of the ground that is covered in ice. That may also be explainable as to why they hit so hard, I mean I've been slapped before, multiple times and it never made me fall down lol

 

I genuinely think the zombies only get that ability when the controller does it. Richtofen plays the game wrong and makes them able to jump so far.

[Tattoo247]

True but in the Der Riese map for BO1, they can jump from the bottom bridge area (where the first box spawn is) to the upper area that's attached to the Double tap perk.

 

That and adding fall damage really made me use a whole new strategy for that map, I REALLY miss no fall damage...

Edited February 2, 2015 by Tattoo247

[Guest]

True but in the Der Riese map for BO1, they can jump from the bottom bridge area (where the first box spawn is) to the upper area that's attached to the Double tap perk.

 

That and adding fall damage really made me use a whole new strategy for that map, I REALLY miss no fall damage...

 

Hmm, but that isnt as far as Die Rise, maybe Samantha only makes the jump that high when she really needs to while Richtofen doesnt take his rolse as serious.

 

Also something I want to talk about is not exactly a GP thing but a quote from Sam while she is in Richtofens body. She says she can hear the voices that Richtofen could. I have long since had a theory that Richtofen not only hears voices but has a two personalities, one being Richtofen and the other "Eddy" I think it would be interesting if we didnt particularly know what was after Moon or not and if Eddy or Richtofen was in control, it could be a way to also make Sam not the voice in Richtofen while having Richtofen in control. Sam is seemingly not in Richtofens body anymore from the Buried ending and could possibly have been kicked out into oblivion, also in cut quotes Richtofen says he misses the group, where are they? I think they are in a different time surviving with Eddy who they think is Richtofen, then I wondered if they could have forgotten that he was in control as they do seem to lose their memory. It makes sense for Takeo to hate Richtofen. I know this is far fetched but I also had an idea that kind of backs this up, if proven right. In Kino and Shangri La Richtofens hat is grey, while in WaW it is cream. Could he have gotten a different hat after Moon? I know you may be thinking, but how do they get the focusing stone, maybe two versions have crossed paths with each other, if my Eddy theory is put into this logic, wouldnt he want full control of his body? I know this is all very unlikely and could be far fetched but it is just a theory that I feel could have so meaning if pieced together better than my ability.

[Tattoo247]

A lot of people have forgotten that Richtofen wasn't all that bad of a guy before he got heavy into 935 and being exposed to 115, which slowly made him paranoid and a little crazy, but what really sent him over the edge was touching the MTD on Moon and gaining the connection to whatever made the Pyramid.

 

The Edward we are seeing in Origins, as well as the ending cutscene would very well be the same Edward, he just wasn't evil yet.  

[Guest]

I know that, I dont see what it says about my theory though XD

[Tattoo247]

Oh I thought you were saying there was a good and bad Richtofen but I get it now.

 

It is important that they tell us what happens to Sam, and Richtofens body. In theory, Richtofen had enough 115 in his system to listen to the "voices" so why couldn't he contact his body through the aether, and talk to Samantha, I doubt there was enough in his body to take control, but if the story continues it should really be about Samantha getting her body back, while somehow taking 935 down at the same time.

 

Sorry I have way too many people talking to me at the moment so this reply probably wasn't really informative lol

[Guest]

Its okay lol, In Richtofens ending, Maxis says what about your body, Richtofen says he doesnt care, but in maxis' ending Richtofen mentions his body saying Sam is still in it. I wonder where the body is though and why Agartha is important. Unless the group are in Agartha? They must be alive due to the way they talk about them, Sam can be saved, but they seem to also be somewhere with no hope.

[Guest]

Do you guys think any of this topic, the story and game thing will be mentioned today?