Collaborative custom map.

[Chopper]

 

 

Listen to what Stevie said and DBZ said and try to work towards that.

We will make 2 versions of the map. One will be the true map for the story and innovation.

The other will be a watered down version with the O4 default models for the characters.

The real version will be left on the table for someone who has the will to achieve greatness.

 

Good luck making the 'true' version with the innovative features and amazing storyline and player quotes then...and good luck finding a mapper for the 'lite' version

 

Stevie is actually one of the guys I have been talking too, and learning an awful lot about how custom maps are made.

 

It shocked me just how much effort goes into making a really detailed map.  Remember when I said that this was just an idea, and not a promise or guarantee?

 

It's for the reasons I stated, that it takes such a massive undertaking to make a quality map.

 

I and the staff will only be able to help with one map if we are even able to do that.  And it certainly will not be a watered down version of anything.  If we are able to make this happen, it will be a detailed and well thought out map.

I wouldn't insult either us, or any mappers by making something which is inferior to what crazy concepts you can come up with.

 

I don't believe that's what you mean for a second @Black Hand Smith, and when I say crazy I genuinely mean in a positive sense, because some of the ideas I've seen from you guys on the site are awesome, detailed and innovative.  They are really crazy, but crazy good.

 

However, most of the ideas can only be accomplished by Treyarch in their latest engines, being done by a large team of professionals.

 

Having seen some of the works out there now, unfinished but being collaborated on by some really talented guys, there is a lot possible.

But the WAW engine is limited.

 

I think that's why DBZ and Stevie said to concentrate more on the storyline.  These guys are capable of some pretty crazy stuff, but it's easier for them to work from a simple concept and then see what magic they can bring to it, rather than having a crazy concept and not be able to deliver because it's just too far out of reach.

 

I'm not saying don't bring ideas, or features as NV just suggested but don't go too far out, as it's just going to be impossible even for a group of mappers to make, and it will make it incredibly difficult for us to get anyone to agree to work on something.

 

If we get this on board, it will be a large undertaking and it has to be manageable.  The mapper/s have to be able to bring their own ideas and features, and see how they can use their imagination and knowledge to try and meld that to a concept.  Not the other way around.

 

Guys this could be really amazing, but we got to keep it in check a little.

 

Chopper

[Black Hand Smith]

Chopper Makes a good point. You know what? lets do this. I'm hyped. 

[Guest]

I am making sure stuff that cannot work cannot get added to what we have, while I am liking to do all of the story stuff there are some features we still have ideas for and will put them down if we decide to. The idea of playing this map gets me really excited, I have seen Oil Rig and it is beautiful- I am sure this can be as well.

 

One thing I wanted to ask was what happens with perks? Can new perk ideas be added? Do you want the standard perks or some other idea of using perks such as Smiths syringe one? I also came up with a way of re imaging perks but that will only be if that is what people would want, I want to know what is possible in the front to. Also, Stevie. Did you make that Amm-O-Matic machine from Christmas Warehouse?

[Hells Warrrior]

Yeah story folk's forget about new characters and so forth, concentrate on the story and what can be done with what is available to use, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

If these guys take this on, it's not because they are getting paid to do it, they are doing it for the community and the love of map making. Listen to what these guys are telling you, I cannot emphasis "listen" anymore than what it means.

[Guest]

Your a bit late to the party Hells, we already established that XD

[Hells Warrrior]

Is that right @Nightmare Voyager, appears to me that it hasn't been established hence why I have posted. If people had been listening to people with knowledge Chopper wouldn't have had to have posted his message at 10 past 10 and Stevie wouldn't have to being said good luck on finding a mapper to make the lite version.

 

As I said and this is for everyone, read, comprehend and listen - otherwise you'll end up with nothing.

[Guest]

Alright, dont take anything out on me I fully agreed to it and so did Smith by that point. When its established multiple times we get the picture, at least I hope they do. It just looks like you were typing it because you hadnt seen Choppers post already which fully summed it up perfectly. 

[Chopper]

@Nightmare Voyager ok mate I think what you said is partially true, but also @Hells Warrrior was just reiterating what I was saying, to make sure it's clear

 

Can I please ask you guys to provide some ideas of what perks you would like, with detailed descriptions.

It's much easier to say if something is possible in those terms, rather than listing what is possible to be scripted if that makes sense.

 

For instance, 2 of the existing perks are just 4 lines of code, whereas others are quite a bit more complicated.

 

As a funky example a dream (and joke) me and the Bulldogs used to have was an extension of our never leave a fallen comrade.

I said that if someone bleeds out, wouldn't it be cool (at least to me) if the zombies picked up their guns and came after you.

 

Quick chat with a couple of mappers blew my mind when I was told this was actually a fairly 'simple' thing to do, with some caveats.

 

Ask the right questions, be it on perks or features and we will endeavour to get them answered for you.

I think that's going to be the best way to go forward with this.

 

Chopper

[Guest]

Okay, well Smith had an idea and I did but I was going to ask about having a new version of perks based off cut ones, if people liked that idea. For example, Double Tap is replaced by Damage Aid. Juggernog and the explosive immunity of PHD are replaced by Tufbrew and so on. But here are my perk ideas that are not to do with that idea:

 

Amm-O-Matic Machine: It is a dark blue machine with golden When buying this for 2000 points you will gain the ability of replenishing ammo, it will replenish over a certain amount of time, depending on how much ammo has been lost.= 2000 Points (Basically ammo replenishing but not constant so it isnt overpowered)

 

Haphazard Honeydew: When brought, you will be given the ability to keep aimed in with a sniper for longer, be unaffected by the poison gases of Nova Crawlers, unaffected by the smoke and will grant players the ability to also recycle any breathed in Nova Gas, this will let it be released when you are hit meaning you can survive more hits if more Nova Crawlers are around. (Dependent on if Nova Crawlers are in it)

 

Barbed Wire Bandit: Upon being hit, players will deal damage to zombies, killing them up until round 25 and damaging them there after. This perk does not always damage the undead though and can be temperamental. Also you will still be able to be hit when a zombie is injured by the barbed wire. (Also, the machine has barbed wire around it and injures players)

Edited March 17, 2015 by Nightmare Voyager

[steviewonder87]

I am making sure stuff that cannot work cannot get added to what we have, while I am liking to do all of the story stuff there are some features we still have ideas for and will put them down if we decide to. The idea of playing this map gets me really excited, I have seen Oil Rig and it is beautiful- I am sure this can be as well.

 

One thing I wanted to ask was what happens with perks? Can new perk ideas be added? Do you want the standard perks or some other idea of using perks such as Smiths syringe one? I also came up with a way of re imaging perks but that will only be if that is what people would want, I want to know what is possible in the front to. Also, Stevie. Did you make that Amm-O-Matic machine from Christmas Warehouse?

New perks can be added for sure, the difficulty varies depending on what you want the perk to do of course, but near enough anything in BO1/2 perk wise is fairly easily recreated in WAW (not saying you need to copy the BO2 perks, just giving you an idea of what is possible), however making entirely new machines/jingles/shaders, etc. is more complex than the actual scripting element, although not impossible by any means.

 

A hell of a lot is possible in custom maps in WAW, but there are limits. Namely there is a memory limit (which I have struggled with in Oil Rig for a long time) which basically is everything that's included in the map. Things like tons of 'custom' player quotes would contribute heavily to this, and personally I'd rather have more weapons, features, perks, etc. in the map than a few poorly done 'custom' quotes of some teenager doing his best Richtofen impression lol. It all depends on what you think is most important in a map, personally the theme, location, style, features, etc. are more important to me than a few humorous player responses every now and again that you inevitably get sick of after a few games (especially amateur ones ). You may disagree, and that's fine, but if this project is to actually see the light of day and become something actually playable - as opposed to just being left to rot as words on a forum - there WILL be compromises on both sides I assure you.

 

Remember whoever takes on this project has to be convinced by you guys that this is something worth spending their time on (and making a quality map takes a fucking long time I can guarantee you that much), they would be doing this for free and for no real benefit other than making a great map, and so far I've not really seen much that would persuade me to do this rather than say, my own map idea, just some random vague ideas about 'new character quotes' and not much else. Prove me wrong here.

 

Character models are easy enough to change (I have the Origins ones in my map), but creating an entirely new set of players? Really, that's just not gonna happen. And I did 'make' the Ammomatic machine, but if you hadn't noticed it's just the staminup machine retextured by myself using the original texture left over in WAW as a basis, I made the shader and added the original player quotes (also unused in WAW) too. If you're wondering what it does (this one doesn't fucntion the same as the one in Warehouse) it basically regens ammo based on kills, but it's more complicated than that.

 

Original -

http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Amm-O-Matic?file=Amm-o-matic.jpg

Mine -

[Guest]

I like your version much more, it looks very nice. I think that the regen and kills thing works fine. I understand whole machines and jingles etc being hard, maybe their could be a new way of obtaining some perks instead? I think custom shaders is a good idea to have though. It makes sense to have them as it stands out in my opinion. 

 

Who would handle weapons by the way and can anyone make a Wunder Weapon of its own that basically looks like an already existing gun but works in a way like the staffs? I know that doesnt give much but its smiths idea and it is really cool.

[Slade]

Regarding any custom quotes, adding them is easy. Here's some quotes of a character in muh test map, to give you an idea of what it would sound like when done right.

 

 

If you want them, I'd suggest having one custom character to minimize the amount of sound files being used. If I'm not mistaken if you do your soundaliases right they overwrite the normal quotes that would be loaded into your map, so if you don't go overboard you shouldn't have any problems concerning sound asset limits.

 

 

[Black Hand Smith]

Ok How about a Perk called

 

Sip N Shift: When you dolphin dive it teleports you to a random location. Similar to the gersch device effect. You can use it once every 30 seconds and if you use it before the 30 seconds are up you go down. 

[Guest]

By quotes I only meant a few quotes about some of the new stuff in the maps, things like weapon preferences, buying perks etc don't need to be changed, well I think it would be better to have them Origins orientated but yeah. My friend said this weekend he will record some stuff so once he is done that, I guess you can judge if he should do some quotes. He is good at voices though, he isnt like an amateur and has a talent for doing many voices that I hope he pursues at some point.

[steviewonder87]

Regarding any custom quotes, adding them is easy. Here's some quotes of a character in muh test map, to give you an idea of what it would sound like when done right.

 

 

If you want them, I'd suggest having one custom character to minimize the amount of sound files being used. If I'm not mistaken if you do your soundaliases right they overwrite the normal quotes that would be loaded into your map, so if you don't go overboard you shouldn't have any problems concerning sound asset limits.

The stock quotes are in some odd format which utilizes hardly any space, adding your own quotes (even overwriting the old ones) would take up much more room, it's fine in a test map with nothing else in it, of course it is, but putting them in an actually good map you'd have to sacrifice other features just to squeeze them in. If you guys think that's worth it then you'd have to convince the mapper of that, I don't even have any clue what you'd be wanting them to say lol? A few quotes would be reasonable though, but again this would be a really minor aspect of the map, surely there are way more important things to be addressing first? Like where the map is actually gonna take place for a start?

[Guest]

We already came up with an idea of where it could be that relates to the story line, we are still working out stuff but nobody except me and sometimes Meh has been around today to work on it so I havent been able to do much.

[Slade]

The stock quotes are in some odd format which utilizes hardly any space, adding your own quotes (even overwriting the old ones) would take up much more room, it's fine in a test map with nothing else in it, of course it is, but putting them in an actually good map you'd have to sacrifice other features just to squeeze them in. If you guys think that's worth it then you'd have to convince the mapper of that, I don't even have any clue what you'd be wanting them to say lol? A few quotes would be reasonable though, but again this would be a really minor aspect of the map, surely there are way more important things to be addressing first? Like where the map is actually gonna take place for a start?

 

Sure, it's definitely not a priority.

 

Let's discuss the map's location / primary features.

[Guest]

You know we have been coming up with locations and stuff already Slade?

[steviewonder87]

Ok How about a Perk called

 

Sip N Shift: When you dolphin dive it teleports you to a random location. Similar to the gersch device effect. You can use it once every 30 seconds and if you use it before the 30 seconds are up you go down. 

There's a perk like that Bamskater made called 'Porter's Punch' where if you go prone for a few seconds you get teleported randomly, I wasn't really a huge fan of it though lol.

[Slade]

You know we have been coming up with locations and stuff already Slade?

I wasn't aware, the OP isn't exactly clear.

 

Might need  to split this thread into multiple ones to seperate discussions regarding features, map location / layout, weapons, story et cetera.

[Guest]

I didnt like that perk either, it just felt unnecessary to the map and didnt feel like a perk.

[Guest]

 

You know we have been coming up with locations and stuff already Slade?

I wasn't aware, the OP isn't exactly clear.

 

Might need  to split this thread into multiple ones to seperate discussions regarding features, map location / layout, weapons, story et cetera.

 

 

Its an easy mistake to make, we are doing most of this on a google doc at the moment.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Sorry, I've been busy lately. 

 

 

Either way build-able ideas: 

 

Radar:  It allows one to 

-Gain a zombie counter

-When equipped it helps one locate items of interest. 

[Guest]

The location we came up with was Agartha, its set after Origins and the characters are sucked into Agartha. They awake in a Group 601 facility (they had been trying to get to Agartha and had found an entrance to it, then built a facility on top of it while they tried to open it, but when they did the facility itself had fell in Agartha) so this facility starts breaking off into a cavern entrance, this entrance is called Dæmon’s Mouth and is a very sharp, jagged cavern like place that leads downwards. Something we wanted to ask was if this next part of the idea is possible. You go down a slide, like Buried but it is slower, then a white light flashes over you and you no longer seem to be underground and are kind of out in the open, you can see the sky and a black sun that has a light ring around it (a reference to the black sun group) then you land in Agartha. If not the slide thing, I am sure a compromise can be made but the idea is you start at a small facility and then traverse to another dimension. We havent really thought out what Agartha itself looks like, I imagine this kind of stone, underground area but with plant life and pools of water. We called the map "Hollow" as a reference to the Hollow Earth.

 

Tell us what you think about the idea as map makers need to obviously want to and be able to do it, there is a big reasoning as to why we wanted it to be set there. Mostly due to it being an important place in zombies that as a community, we theorize around constantly which I think makes a whole lot of sense and is just a nice place to see. Also, I know Smith and others have been thinking of it having references to past maps and the past anyways, like a map that kind of summarizes what zombies is as a whole. The perfect location to do this would be Agartha in my opinion. Theres other reasoning as to why its a good place to set it, obviously it hasnt been done (at least I dont think and if so not in a way like this could be) but as I have made this long comment I think you should decide first. Also, I wanna say that obviously this is an idea that me, Black Hand Smith, Stop mocking me0, Amantha77 and The Meh came up with, I am only putting it in the post as a request of Slade.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Nightmare Voyager

[xACE_OF_AWSOMx]

WOO! Now's my chance...

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm going to get to the gameplay rather than the story. 

 

Buildables: 

 

 

Shield, obviously.

 

 

Something that relates to the quest (Staffs from Origins, Plane from Mob of the Dead)

 

 

BUILDABLE WWs, EXACTLY LIKE ORIGINS (not EXACTLY like it, something different but buildable)

 

 

(Add suggestions here)

 

 

 

Also, I like the idea of killing zombies to fill up something (Dogs from Mob of the Dead, Chests from Origins)

 

Then, instead of giving Hell's Retreiver or Thunderfists, it gives you like a C4 that one hits a group of 20 zombies until round 19 (Recurring thing: Fists and Retriever lose one hit on round 19.) Of course, you can upgrade this C4 thing too.

 

 

From the Mystery Box, I can do with weapons.......so long as we don't have the War Machine.

 

 

Galvaknuckles can make a return.

 

 

As for Perks....ALL THE PERKS with no limits.

 

 

 

 

Make some suggestions and feedback.