The Giant: A Sequel to Origins

[Guest]

So apart from the major hype that is going on around the news, I wanted to discuss the story implications this map has now in the story. We are not just getting a remake of a map like we did in BO1, we are getting a remake that actually is a part of the story. It is a large debate as to whether Origins is in the storyline or not. I truly feel as if this means Origins is just that, the Origins of the story.

It would be confusing to go to Der Riese after Origins though because as far as anyone is concerned, Der Riese follows Shi No Numa in the story. Well I have been looking into it and to be honest, there is no reason it needs to be. There is not a quote I can find that essentially says Shi No Numa is before Der Riese and if anyone can find it please tell me. People always assumed Richtofen went to Shi No Numa and got the characters from there, but if the characters met in Origins the things could have been different. I am wondering whether this remake will actually fill in the gap from Origins to the rest of the story in some way. I am not sure how it all works though but an idea that I really like is that the characters go to Der Riese and then survive their for years and get older up until we see them in the original Der Riese. I know there is a lot wrong with that because of things having to happen in between but I am just making up various theories at the moment.

What do you guys think? Do you have any theories about how it all works? I guess we will see soon enough though.

[Black Hand Smith]

So apart from the major hype that is going on around the news, I wanted to discuss the story implications this map has now in the story. We are not just getting a remake of a map like we did in BO1, we are getting a remake that actually is a part of the story. It is a large debate as to whether Origins is in the storyline or not. I truly feel as if this means Origins is just that, the Origins of the story.

It would be confusing to go to Der Riese after Origins though because as far as anyone is concerned, Der Riese follows Shi No Numa in the story. Well I have been looking into it and to be honest, there is no reason it needs to be. There is not a quote I can find that essentially says Shi No Numa is before Der Riese and if anyone can find it please tell me. People always assumed Richtofen went to Shi No Numa and got the characters from there, but if the characters met in Origins the things could have been different. I am wondering whether this remake will actually fill in the gap from Origins to the rest of the story in some way. I am not sure how it all works though but an idea that I really like is that the characters go to Der Riese and then survive their for years and get older up until we see them in the original Der Riese. I know there is a lot wrong with that because of things having to happen in between but I am just making up various theories at the moment.

What do you guys think? Do you have any theories about how it all works? I guess we will see soon enough though.

I think Shi No Numa was definitely the first time the super soldiers were activated. They were captured durring WWII and now they are coming back in their Origins versions somehow. Whether this is the same Der riese we saw in the original timeline or a new Der riese from an alternate path is uncertain. However I have the feeling it will be better than Nuketown Zombies

[Flammenwerfer]

Although there aren't any quotes that say that they went from SNN to Der Riese, doesn't the Kino loading screen kinda confirm that they did? They teleported to the future due to a combination of the Wunderwaffe and the teleporters. It wouldn't make sense for them to somehow get to SNN in the future when we already know the process of events in BO.

[Guest]

This is why 3arch are sneaky. The characters are in a teleporter yes, but who says it is at Der Riese? Like it could be from anywhere with a teleporter, that image could be of Kino der Toten for all anyone knows.

[Flammenwerfer]

True, but the most logical thing is to assume that those images are from Der Riese, as per the pattern of the maps (NDU -> Verruckt -> SNN -> Der Riese  -> Teleportation). Doesn't make sense for them to show the other three maps but not Der Riese.

[Guest]

It makes sense if they had planned ahead of time that Der Riese didn't follow Shi No Numa

[Spider3000]

Lol, I'm pretty sure playthegame mentioned that idea about the characters getting old at Der Riese years later.

When I first read it, I took it as that the map would take the map Origins' into account through Easter eggs or quotes or whatever.

[Guest]

Lol, I'm pretty sure playthegame mentioned that idea about the characters getting old at Der Riese years later.

When I first read it, I took it as that the map would take the map Origins' into account through Easter eggs or quotes or whatever.

Is that a recent thing? I've never heard of it before, until I saw that the origins characters were going to be in der riese and i though of it.

[Spider3000]

Lol, I'm pretty sure playthegame mentioned that idea about the characters getting old at Der Riese years later.

When I first read it, I took it as that the map would take the map Origins' into account through Easter eggs or quotes or whatever.

 

Is that a recent thing? I've never heard of it before, until I saw that the origins characters were going to be in der riese and i though of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, I'm pretty sure playthegame mentioned that idea about the characters getting old at Der Riese years later.

When I first read it, I took it as that the map would take the map Origins' into account through Easter eggs or quotes or whatever.

Is that a recent thing? I've never heard of it before, until I saw that the origins characters were going to be in der riese and i though of it.

Nah, I think they thought of it before Black Ops 1 came out.

[RedDeadRiot]

Can we stop calling it a remake? I think it's gunna be MUCH bugger than just a remake.

[Guest]

It says remake doesn't it? I agree with you but it is just easier, like perma perks. Also I didn't watch them before mob of the dead so i wouldnt know spider, if they did was it like mine?

[Stop Mocking Me0]

This map is going to be fantastic! 

 

What I expect is that they'll likely give us the same layout as der-reise, which is roughly the same size as nuke town, and then just add a shit-ton of fun things, a few bonus modes, and maybe access to the robot-construction site! (Easter-egg: Build the robot anyone?)

[Hells Warrrior]

Anyone considered that "follow up" doesn't necessarily mean in regards to timeline but just a follow up to the last map from BOII.

[Guest]

Anyone considered that "follow up" doesn't necessarily mean in regards to timeline but just a follow up to the last map from BOII.

But we know it has the Origins characters?

[slash23579]

Well, better go put on some fresh pants

[chosenone]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Origins an alternate timeline caused by Sam escaping the events of Buried (Richtofen's version seems to be the canon one) by time traveling to 1918 or whenever Origins takes place?

[Rissole25]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Origins an alternate timeline caused by Sam escaping the events of Buried (Richtofen's version seems to be the canon one) by time traveling to 1918 or whenever Origins takes place?

We were never really told. Maxis said Sam was in Agartha in Buried, and Sam is trapped in Agartha in Origins, but that's literally the only connection between the two maps as far as I know. We don't know which side is canon either.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

The intro cutscene, which was exclusive to comic-con for the time being, depicted the young O3 (Takeo, Tank, and Nikolai) showing up at the MTD testing site JUST after Nazi-Richtofen sends Samantha and Maxis off in the teleporter. Things get a bit weird when the 3 tell him he needs to unleash the hordes and set a chain of events in motion. The 3 prepare for a fight, and then Nazi-richtofen goes to a big red button on the teleporter. This is where the 3 say "Don't open that! An untold evil lies in there!" which, as any Nazi would, he opens it. This is where things get timey-whimey, as ORIGIN'S version of Richtofen steps out of the teleporter and KILLS Nazi Richtofen!

 

In origins we keep hearing samantha say that richtofen "knew what he had to do to end the cycle".

You don't end a cycle any better then killing your future self. 

[chosenone]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Origins an alternate timeline caused by Sam escaping the events of Buried (Richtofen's version seems to be the canon one) by time traveling to 1918 or whenever Origins takes place?

We were never really told. Maxis said Sam was in Agartha in Buried, and Sam is trapped in Agartha in Origins, but that's literally the only connection between the two maps as far as I know. We don't know which side is canon either.

Maxis said he was going to destroy the Earth, I highly doubt that's going to end up happening.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Yes because destroying the earth is unheard of in zombies... 

[Matuzz]

Recap:

• Richtofen and old crew make their way trough different time jumps to Moon and switch bodies with Samantha and cause Earth to explode.
• Richtofen and Maxis use new set of heroes to fight for the control of Aether and try to mend a rift in time. Vri-ya gets released into Earth at 1930's before the rift was mended.
• Black Ops II world ends with either Maxis destroying the realm to get back to his daughter or by Richtofen becoming evil god torturing people and getting himself a physical body. -> There is nothing after this point. This world was destroyed / remained in chaos state.
• An alternative universe was caused to be created taking place in The Great War. Maxis was reunited with his daughter and this world was changed so that nothing ever happened and everything was just a game by Samantha and boy named Eddie. NO4 are thrown from this world into the first zombies creation realm in Der Riese at 1940's.
• The Vril-ya have gained control of the Earth and turned it into a hell were they punish people for theirs sins like they did in MotD. This world may or may not be now linked to the original realm where the NO4 was sent. The main evil of Vril-ya has taken physical form in way of "Shadow Man".

Does that make sense?  

[NaBrZHunter]

Just want to throw this out there: is it not true that the tests being run on Nikolai (Russian Test Subject), Takeo (Subject N3WB), the Mexican, and Dempsey (the American Spy from Verruckt) were experiments sanctioned by Group 935?

Which makes sense that:

-Richtofen begins tests on N3WB, the Russian test subject, and the Mexican
-He grows disgruntled towards Maxis as the WwDG2 is not being mass produced (note: due to a lack of funding)
-The Mexican is killed during Richtofen's experiment to determine whether the blood/brain barrier protecting the brain from the psychological effects of 115 was in the spleen.
-The "American Spy" is delivered from Verruckt to Der Riese, where Richtofen proceeds with and succeeds in his testing.

-After Samantha overtakes the MPD, Richtofen returns to Der Riese from the ever so mysterious "Eagle's Nest" to commence "Operation Shield."
-Richtofen betrays Maxis and Samantha
-He receives word from Griffin Station that is has been overtaken by Samantha and overrun with undead.
-He wakes the "test subjects" and begins his quest of conquest against Samantha and the MPD

OR...

-Richtofen betrays Maxis and Samantha
-The NO4 arrive, and execute Old Richtofen.
-Either to get intel from them, save their lives, or execute a plan before eliminating them, the NO4 wake the test subjects...

 

Edited July 12, 2015 by NaBrZHunter

[BennetsGreen]

Ok guys, I finally found a new house and I'm back online, I can't help but think those test tubes of blood from the mob crew that the origins crew have are going to play a large part further down the line

[ETEl2NAL407]

This could be the sequel, sure. If so, that's the Origins Richtofen who kills his older self from the timeline we're all familiar with (this is suggested by the Maxis quote just before we see the older Richtofen). 

When the characters mention 'waking the other test subjects', I'm going to assume they mean their older selves, but could be wrong.

Getting away from the clear signs in this trailer, let's compare this to the Origins EE cutscene like we're seeing if this puzzle piece will fit.

In the cutscene we only see 'Eddy' and Samantha discussing and exercising their control over the zombies which suggests they're on the same plane of existence. We only hear Maxis, so I'm going to assume the cutscene was meant to represent the Aether. Eddy is actually just the immortal youthful projection of Richtofen.

This means that the cutscene takes place after the events of Moon, but since time is irrelevant within the Aether, it doesn't matter that Origins occurs chronologically before in the physical realm. Furthermore we can take the events of the Origins EE at face value, Samantha is reaching across the void of time to contact Maxis and shape the outcome of events.

I think if The Giant is the continuation of that point, it must be 'Maxis' Plan' that Samantha mentions in the cutscene. So far, Richtofen has already been eliminated by his younger self who apparently teleported there with the help of Samantha. 

What evil are they mentioning? Is this the same evil that Samantha mentions during Moon? The evil that's even worse than Richtofen? There are questions from this for sure, but if looked at as the sequel to Origins it truly does segue pretty well. 

What can be said about the chronology of the previous maps though?

I'm thinking this sheds even more light onto the entirety of the story. SNN, Verruckt, etc. were different test sites for 115 and all followed the events of Origins. Our O3 are kept locked away until the test is commenced (which is endless waves of undead, apparently) which they subsequently lose control of and must flee to the next site via teleporter in classic comic book fashion.

Now we'll see 2 sets of these characters and hopefully continue to face this evil they mention.

With 2 sets of Origin 4 characters, The Giant will have some great Grief matches for sure.

[Guest]

I have no clue what you are talking about, you hear Samantha crying and asking for her daddys help like in the radio. The cutscene takes place in that radio where Samantha and Maxis are trapped in a teleporter with Fluffy. Also at this point there is only 7 characters, the origins ones and the older versions of takeo, tank and nikolai.

 

Also test subject N3WB was Takeo if you listen to the radios.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Nightmare Voyager