'Dammit Richtofen, I thought we were done with this'

[Iamanugget42]

Alright so here's something I picked up on in The Giant trailer that I, so far, haven't seen anybody point out. Immediately after Origins Richtofen exits the teleporter and shoots nazi Richtofen in the face, Dempsey exclaims "Dammit Richtofen, I thought we were done with this!". This quote leads me to believe that, within our origins universe, there is an endless cycle happening similar to that of its parallel universes.

Further evidence to back this up includes the fact that Nikolai, Tank and Takeo all know nazi Richtofen's scheme at Der Riese, while nazi Richtofen has no idea who our O3 characters are. This could suggest that our O4 (Origins Richtofen included) have lived through this scenario multiple times; they have seen nazi Richtofen and what he does, and so they've come back to change it. Now we tie Tank's previous quote into this:

If our O4 have lived through this scenario multiple times, they will have conversed afterward and devised a plan prior to returning to Der Riese (which are ultimately nullified due to element 115's properties of memory loss). For reasoning I'm not sure of (maybe the community can help here), the O4 need to keep nazi Richtofen alive to prevent the cataclysm directly caused by him at the end of Buried. However, in keeping nazi Richtofen alive, it is possible that Origins Richtofen is destined to become that, if we follow the quantum theory that time is like a river. Every time our O4 enter Der Riese, Origins Richtofen refuses to become what he is destined to be, and so kills his future self. This sets off a chain of events which causes an endless cycle, similar to that exhibited in MotD, and ends in Mined Games easter egg in Buried. Since Tank seems to be impervious to the effects of Divinium diminishing memory capabilities, he retains the experiences of living through Der Riese, while the others don't.

I dunno, it seems a little messy and I don't know if this is already basically canon, but maybe it could do with some refining. I guess lemme know what you think, it seems pretty legit to me.

 

[Flammenwerfer]

Nice theory, but I thought it referred to the fact that they still have to kill zombies, despite being in a universe that may or may not be their own. 

[Guest]

Nice theory, but I thought it referred to the fact that they still have to kill zombies, despite being in a universe that may or may not be their own. 

He says it after Richtofen shoots himself and changes time, I thought it meant he just changed history again. I am pretty sure they confirmed Origins to be in the same universe now, why would they even change their future if it didn't benefit them or why would they talk about seeing a better tomorrow if its not theres?

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

If Dempsey was aware of the cycle and Rictofen keeps continuing it, why would he even put up a fight after Origins Rictofen shoots Nazi Rictofen, knowing full well it will just happen again. I do believe he was just referring to the fact that they just changed history again. Given the exchange that took place before the shooting it seemed like the O3 wanted to have certain events happen (the events of BO), but given the look of disgust on O-Rictofen's face when he saw his Nazi equivalent, he decided to forge a new path and not become the monster he saw in front of him. He did so also believing they did not need to set the events of BO in motion to prevent whatever it is they are trying to stop from happening. My best guess being the Earth not being bombarded by massive 115 missiles.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Kill_All_Monkeys

[NaBrZHunter]

Alright so here's something I picked up on in The Giant trailer that I, so far, haven't seen anybody point out. Immediately after Origins Richtofen exits the teleporter and shoots nazi Richtofen in the face, Dempsey exclaims "Dammit Richtofen, I thought we were done with this!". This quote leads me to believe that, within our origins universe, there is an endless cycle happening similar to that of its parallel universes.

Further evidence to back this up includes the fact that Nikolai, Tank and Takeo all know nazi Richtofen's scheme at Der Riese, while nazi Richtofen has no idea who our O3 characters are. This could suggest that our O4 (Origins Richtofen included) have lived through this scenario multiple times; they have seen nazi Richtofen and what he does, and so they've come back to change it. Now we tie Tank's previous quote into this:

If our O4 have lived through this scenario multiple times, they will have conversed afterward and devised a plan prior to returning to Der Riese (which are ultimately nullified due to element 115's properties of memory loss). For reasoning I'm not sure of (maybe the community can help here), the O4 need to keep nazi Richtofen alive to prevent the cataclysm directly caused by him at the end of Buried. However, in keeping nazi Richtofen alive, it is possible that Origins Richtofen is destined to become that, if we follow the quantum theory that time is like a river. Every time our O4 enter Der Riese, Origins Richtofen refuses to become what he is destined to be, and so kills his future self. This sets off a chain of events which causes an endless cycle, similar to that exhibited in MotD, and ends in Mined Games easter egg in Buried. Since Tank seems to be impervious to the effects of Divinium diminishing memory capabilities, he retains the experiences of living through Der Riese, while the others don't.

I dunno, it seems a little messy and I don't know if this is already basically canon, but maybe it could do with some refining. I guess lemme know what you think, it seems pretty legit to me.

 

Canon is not safe word to use unless you have something that has been straight up proven. This is not canon, therefore. Canon is absolutely indisputable.

As far as my opinion is concerned, I don't yet see this as being cyclical. There is no indication that this has happened before, but rather, a re-definition of precious events. I would say that a difference between cycle and loop is arguable. A loop doesn't HAVE to go in the same direction. A cycle follows the same path. A loop can curl back to a previous point and end up intersecting, but heading in a different direction.

[Guest]

Alright so here's something I picked up on in The Giant trailer that I, so far, haven't seen anybody point out. Immediately after Origins Richtofen exits the teleporter and shoots nazi Richtofen in the face, Dempsey exclaims "Dammit Richtofen, I thought we were done with this!". This quote leads me to believe that, within our origins universe, there is an endless cycle happening similar to that of its parallel universes.

Further evidence to back this up includes the fact that Nikolai, Tank and Takeo all know nazi Richtofen's scheme at Der Riese, while nazi Richtofen has no idea who our O3 characters are. This could suggest that our O4 (Origins Richtofen included) have lived through this scenario multiple times; they have seen nazi Richtofen and what he does, and so they've come back to change it. Now we tie Tank's previous quote into this:

If our O4 have lived through this scenario multiple times, they will have conversed afterward and devised a plan prior to returning to Der Riese (which are ultimately nullified due to element 115's properties of memory loss). For reasoning I'm not sure of (maybe the community can help here), the O4 need to keep nazi Richtofen alive to prevent the cataclysm directly caused by him at the end of Buried. However, in keeping nazi Richtofen alive, it is possible that Origins Richtofen is destined to become that, if we follow the quantum theory that time is like a river. Every time our O4 enter Der Riese, Origins Richtofen refuses to become what he is destined to be, and so kills his future self. This sets off a chain of events which causes an endless cycle, similar to that exhibited in MotD, and ends in Mined Games easter egg in Buried. Since Tank seems to be impervious to the effects of Divinium diminishing memory capabilities, he retains the experiences of living through Der Riese, while the others don't.

I dunno, it seems a little messy and I don't know if this is already basically canon, but maybe it could do with some refining. I guess lemme know what you think, it seems pretty legit to me.

 

Canon is not safe word to use unless you have something that has been straight up proven. This is not canon, therefore. Canon is absolutely indisputable.

As far as my opinion is concerned, I don't yet see this as being cyclical. There is no indication that this has happened before, but rather, a re-definition of precious events. I would say that a difference between cycle and loop is arguable. A loop doesn't HAVE to go in the same direction. A cycle follows the same path. A loop can curl back to a previous point and end up intersecting, but heading in a different direction.

The story itself is in a time loop. Maxis makes a quote about it in Origins and its been long since theorised. It also explains things like Die Rise's intro. A time loop goes round and round so even if time changes like in the Giant, if they fail to break the loop they will end up back at Origins and go back down the normal story unless things change again. It can happen differently each time as well, pretty good excuse for why all games are different if you ask me. Anyways Mob of the Dead, aside from being a nice map with an intriguing story was also to portray a much simpler version of the time loop so that when they got to Origins they could explain that Origins is the start and we are there not because it is the start but because its where the time loop may or may not start.

[NaBrZHunter]

Alright so here's something I picked up on in The Giant trailer that I, so far, haven't seen anybody point out. Immediately after Origins Richtofen exits the teleporter and shoots nazi Richtofen in the face, Dempsey exclaims "Dammit Richtofen, I thought we were done with this!". This quote leads me to believe that, within our origins universe, there is an endless cycle happening similar to that of its parallel universes.

Further evidence to back this up includes the fact that Nikolai, Tank and Takeo all know nazi Richtofen's scheme at Der Riese, while nazi Richtofen has no idea who our O3 characters are. This could suggest that our O4 (Origins Richtofen included) have lived through this scenario multiple times; they have seen nazi Richtofen and what he does, and so they've come back to change it. Now we tie Tank's previous quote into this:

If our O4 have lived through this scenario multiple times, they will have conversed afterward and devised a plan prior to returning to Der Riese (which are ultimately nullified due to element 115's properties of memory loss). For reasoning I'm not sure of (maybe the community can help here), the O4 need to keep nazi Richtofen alive to prevent the cataclysm directly caused by him at the end of Buried. However, in keeping nazi Richtofen alive, it is possible that Origins Richtofen is destined to become that, if we follow the quantum theory that time is like a river. Every time our O4 enter Der Riese, Origins Richtofen refuses to become what he is destined to be, and so kills his future self. This sets off a chain of events which causes an endless cycle, similar to that exhibited in MotD, and ends in Mined Games easter egg in Buried. Since Tank seems to be impervious to the effects of Divinium diminishing memory capabilities, he retains the experiences of living through Der Riese, while the others don't.

I dunno, it seems a little messy and I don't know if this is already basically canon, but maybe it could do with some refining. I guess lemme know what you think, it seems pretty legit to me.

 

Canon is not safe word to use unless you have something that has been straight up proven. This is not canon, therefore. Canon is absolutely indisputable.

As far as my opinion is concerned, I don't yet see this as being cyclical. There is no indication that this has happened before, but rather, a re-definition of precious events. I would say that a difference between cycle and loop is arguable. A loop doesn't HAVE to go in the same direction. A cycle follows the same path. A loop can curl back to a previous point and end up intersecting, but heading in a different direction.

 

The story itself is in a time loop. Maxis makes a quote about it in Origins and its been long since theorised. It also explains things like Die Rise's intro. A time loop goes round and round so even if time changes like in the Giant, if they fail to break the loop they will end up back at Origins and go back down the normal story unless things change again. It can happen differently each time as well, pretty good excuse for why all games are different if you ask me. Anyways Mob of the Dead, aside from being a nice map with an intriguing story was also to portray a much simpler version of the time loop so that when they got to Origins they could explain that Origins is the start and we are there not because it is the start but because its where the time loop may or may not start.

Absolutely. I was kinda theorizing "out loud," but just emphasizing that it may not be a loop in the exact same sense as MotD, which seems to be on the exact same cyclical route each time until the specific resolution is found. The original story may be on a loop like the Treyarch emblem. Looping, but taking a different route after each loop. Which...damn...that wouldn't be unlike them, now wouldn't it? Heck, the Treyarch emblem has shown up deliberately in association with time loops, namely, Shangri-La, which, as I had theorized, makes a loopy pattern instead of a perfect cycle.

Edited August 31, 2015 by NaBrZHunter

[Guest]

Alright so here's something I picked up on in The Giant trailer that I, so far, haven't seen anybody point out. Immediately after Origins Richtofen exits the teleporter and shoots nazi Richtofen in the face, Dempsey exclaims "Dammit Richtofen, I thought we were done with this!". This quote leads me to believe that, within our origins universe, there is an endless cycle happening similar to that of its parallel universes.

Further evidence to back this up includes the fact that Nikolai, Tank and Takeo all know nazi Richtofen's scheme at Der Riese, while nazi Richtofen has no idea who our O3 characters are. This could suggest that our O4 (Origins Richtofen included) have lived through this scenario multiple times; they have seen nazi Richtofen and what he does, and so they've come back to change it. Now we tie Tank's previous quote into this:

If our O4 have lived through this scenario multiple times, they will have conversed afterward and devised a plan prior to returning to Der Riese (which are ultimately nullified due to element 115's properties of memory loss). For reasoning I'm not sure of (maybe the community can help here), the O4 need to keep nazi Richtofen alive to prevent the cataclysm directly caused by him at the end of Buried. However, in keeping nazi Richtofen alive, it is possible that Origins Richtofen is destined to become that, if we follow the quantum theory that time is like a river. Every time our O4 enter Der Riese, Origins Richtofen refuses to become what he is destined to be, and so kills his future self. This sets off a chain of events which causes an endless cycle, similar to that exhibited in MotD, and ends in Mined Games easter egg in Buried. Since Tank seems to be impervious to the effects of Divinium diminishing memory capabilities, he retains the experiences of living through Der Riese, while the others don't.

I dunno, it seems a little messy and I don't know if this is already basically canon, but maybe it could do with some refining. I guess lemme know what you think, it seems pretty legit to me.

 

Canon is not safe word to use unless you have something that has been straight up proven. This is not canon, therefore. Canon is absolutely indisputable.

As far as my opinion is concerned, I don't yet see this as being cyclical. There is no indication that this has happened before, but rather, a re-definition of precious events. I would say that a difference between cycle and loop is arguable. A loop doesn't HAVE to go in the same direction. A cycle follows the same path. A loop can curl back to a previous point and end up intersecting, but heading in a different direction.

 

The story itself is in a time loop. Maxis makes a quote about it in Origins and its been long since theorised. It also explains things like Die Rise's intro. A time loop goes round and round so even if time changes like in the Giant, if they fail to break the loop they will end up back at Origins and go back down the normal story unless things change again. It can happen differently each time as well, pretty good excuse for why all games are different if you ask me. Anyways Mob of the Dead, aside from being a nice map with an intriguing story was also to portray a much simpler version of the time loop so that when they got to Origins they could explain that Origins is the start and we are there not because it is the start but because its where the time loop may or may not start.

Absolutely. I was kinda theorizing "out loud," but just emphasizing that it may not be a loop in the exact same sense as MotD, which seems to be on the exact same cyclical route each time until the specific resolution is found. The original story may be on a loop like the Treyarch emblem. Looping, but taking a different route after each loop. Which...damn...that wouldn't be unlike them, now wouldn't it? Heck, the Treyarch emblem has shown up deliberately in association with time loops, namely, Shangri-La, which, as I had theorized, makes a loopy pattern instead of a perfect cycle.

The Treyarch logo, you know what you might be right thats an interesting way of looking at the loop actually. Really good observation.

[NaBrZHunter]

Absolutely. I was kinda theorizing "out loud," but just emphasizing that it may not be a loop in the exact same sense as MotD, which seems to be on the exact same cyclical route each time until the specific resolution is found. The original story may be on a loop like the Treyarch emblem. Looping, but taking a different route after each loop. Which...damn...that wouldn't be unlike them, now wouldn't it? Heck, the Treyarch emblem has shown up deliberately in association with time loops, namely, Shangri-La, which, as I had theorized, makes a loopy pattern instead of a perfect cycle.

 

The Treyarch logo, you know what you might be right thats an interesting way of looking at the loop actually. Really good observation.

Hey, thanks! I'm actually pretty excited about that now, 'cause that would open a whole world of possibility for future maps and games. Hell, if it follows the same pattern (assuming that there is anything to this in the first place), then the first two/three games (WAW, BO, BO2) would only be the first side, (right side) origins comprising the bottom right loop, which loops backwards, reading from perspective of: the top point as a starting point, being the 'normal,' dimension and time, not below or superseded by the other points on the emblem. Maybe BO3 begins the bottom third...

Edited September 1, 2015 by NaBrZHunter

[Guest]

That would make sense since its the third Black Ops. I would like to see someone do a theory on this where they tie maps into the treyarch logo, not sayings its a definite thing but you never know with 3arch.

[Tattoo247]

Just a thought that popped in my head. Perhaps the death of Richtofen resets the cycle, no matter how it plays out.

Meaning, Maxis "wins" at the end of BO2, erasing Richtofen, and inadvertently reseting the events, taking us back to Origins.

Inadvertently or perhaps it's his "plan" that the Origins ending offers.

So does having two Richtofens, and killing one fix this? I don't think it does unless he plans on staying in this dimension, which still could lead to his death in another way.

[NaBrZHunter]

That would make sense since its the third Black Ops. I would like to see someone do a theory on this where they tie maps into the treyarch logo, not sayings its a definite thing but you never know with 3arch.

I'm gonna try. Channel's been in pre-prod, so I haven't had much time to write lately. But I've got something plotted out...I keep saying this, but eventually, I'll get it out there.