My Giant Theory

[Garrett]

Ok, so, this is extremely complex and has more questions than answers... (but hey, it's Zombies, since when hasn't than been the case?)  
But, here's a theory I haven't heard others really think about.  If it's confusing, I apologize, frankly, it's hard enough for me to keep track of a lot of this info myself as the story is so wide and has so many unanswered questions.   So, here we go:  

The final cut scene for Origins really has one sticking point to me that carries Origins to BO3 in Der Riese, that's Samantha telling Eddie one simple thing, that Maxis has a plan.  Now, at that point, Samantha, "Eddie" and Maxis are all in the aether.   Samantha having been there pretty much the whole time, Eddie (Richtofen) when the BO2 heroes gave him the power and allowed him entrance, and Maxis after the Origins heroes opened the gateway. (And fluffy as well)  It's my belief that the cut scene in Origins was the three of them together in the Aether in a sort of limbo.   But, whatever the case, the point is that one line... "My dad says he has a plan."  

Enter The Giant.   

I found it quite suspicious that the origins heroes teleport in just as Maxis and Sam are teleported out.   If the point were to stop Richtofen and his actions, (namely teleporting Samantha to Griffin Station where she becomes entangled in the MPD and really starting this whole thing) then they've already failed.   Well, they couldn't have failed before even beginning could they?   I don't think so.   It's been said that the three heroes are baiting Richtofen into opening the teleporter which seems odd to me.  Why exactly would they bait him? What purpose would that serve when he's already used the teleporter himself?  He's already seen the MPD, he's already gone to Shangri-La and learned of the Vril, he's already built Griffin Station and left Schuster and Groph there in charge.... Why be so coy about him opening it up now? Just a revel of Origins Richtofen?  Seems flimsy.   Unless up to that point, Richtofen was supposed to do all these things so that Maxis and Samantha WOULD be teleported.  

But he does and there's Origins Richtofen, NOT with the other three heroes and carrying blood vials from Alcatraz.    Now, I have no idea what the Alcatraz connection really is with Richtofen and our other Origins heroes.   Any speculation I have will probably be shown wrong in a couple months anyway but there is clearly some connection.   But, the question I have is more with why Richtofen is in the teleporter at all.  The other Origins heroes seem oddly aware of everything especially if, as some have speculated, that they were transported directly from Origins to Der Riese.  They all seem to be on the same page when it comes to their purpose (one we're not privy to yet).  

It's my theory that they have been recruited by Origins Maxis as part of his grand plan much like Richtofen had recruited them in the original story line to help him attain his master plan.  Using the fear of the potential future to guide them, he could have coaxed them into his ranks, even Origins Richtofen.  After all, Maxis was never a "good guy" in the original story.  He had his own nefarious narcissistic goals to accomplish which in no way really helped mankind but simply clashed with Richtofen's goals.  

Now, in The Giant trailer, Richtofen exits the teleporter and as I said, I find that suspicious especially given his possession of blood vials from Alcatraz. It's also my theory that the Origins crew did not simply go straight from Origins back to Der Riese.  When Maxis and Samantha are teleported, they go to different locations.  Samantha goes to Griffin Station and enters the MPD. Where Maxis goes is somewhat a mystery as he is then trasported back to Griffin Station, after Samantha is already in the MPD, by Schuster and Groph who then kill him where his spirit enters the computer system of the base.  I think the Origins crew has been on it's own adventure at the behest of Origins Maxis to fix this.  That both he and Samantha would go to Griffin Station where HE could take control of the zombies instead of Samantha.   As I noticed in both the trailer for The Giant and Der Riese, the eyes don't seem to be the same color.  It's often said that Maxis is yellow while Samantha is orange but I think it's reverse.   The eyes in Der Riese, under Samantha's control, look orange where in The Giant, they look yellow.  They don't seem to be the same.    If I'm wrong on this, please let me know, I am somewhat color blind and the difference between orange and yellow is very hard for me to pick out sometimes.   

So, kind of a recap up to this point.  After Origins, Maxis, Eddie, and Samantha are in the Aether, which Samantha has constructed to seem like what it was before all those terrible events happened, together where Maxis has a plan.  That plan is to send the Origins heroes back to Der Riese to help him stop Richtofen from achieving his plans and instead, fulfill his own grand works under the guise of saving the world.   To do this though, they must allow Maxis and Samantha to be transported where Maxis now controls the zombies.    

So that's my theory as to where we are now. Maybe right, probably wrong.  

But I don't think it is quite so simple even as I've described it.  I think Origins Richtofen isn't as "good" as we've been led to believe.   The fact that he has the blood vials from Alcatraz makes me pause about his intentions and the fact that he does something to the dead Richtofen, looks to be taking something or perhaps he's extracting more blood, leads me to believe he still has his own plans perhaps dealing more with the Ancient Evil found at Alcatraz and seems to be carried into Shadow of Evil.  My reasoning is this, Richtofen seems quite aware of what has happened in Samantha's future and about his failures.   By killing his "evil" self, the future is now open for him to correct his own mistakes which many believe to mean he will work to save the world, but could he be merely trying to make the world better for himself?  He and Dr. Maxis have long been at odds with one another and despite saving him in 1918 Richtofen was still very much entrenched in 935 up to that point.   Origins Richtofen could very well be trying to undermine Maxis' plan for his own gains.  Now, one may wonder "why? he seems like a good version of Richtofen, doesn't he?"  That's true, up until now, Origins Richtofen has seemingly done nothing but good in helping the other 3 heroes fight the zombies, releasing Samantha, saving Maxis' brain....  Why would he change?  Well, that one missing link from the Aether.   Eddie.   


I know this has been very long and hopefully not too confusing.  I've tried to make it as simple as possible both for you and myself.  Let me know what you think, questions, counter theories, whatever...   I'm fascinated by the story and only think the current theories are too simplistic to really cover anything.    Would love to discuss.    

 

 

[NaBrZHunter]

Hey @Garret, welcome to the forum! I like your thinking, keep it up! 

One particular thing I'd like to note/correct is that precedent states that the Aether can only be occupied by one individual (not including the 'something far more terrible' that Samantha describes. Sam filled the void, Richtofen displaced her, and Maxis displaced Richtofen, and Sam got pushed through to Agartha. I've got a post coming out today that I'm feeling pretty good about regarding the physics and nature of the Aether that should clarify. So last we checked, Maxis was the only entity in the Aether. 

However, I have to agree with you about Richtofen. I don't believe he is genuinely benevolent. After all, he straight up says in Origins that he seeks the staves for himself. 

Perhaps Maxis seeks to win the war for the Nazis by finally achieving what he failed to do at Kino when he attempted to mind-control the zombies? Just a thought, you have a good point...

[Guest]

Hey @Garret, welcome to the forum! I like your thinking, keep it up! 

One particular thing I'd like to note/correct is that precedent states that the Aether can only be occupied by one individual (not including the 'something far more terrible' that Samantha describes. Sam filled the void, Richtofen displaced her, and Maxis displaced Richtofen, and Sam got pushed through to Agartha. I've got a post coming out today that I'm feeling pretty good about regarding the physics and nature of the Aether that should clarify. So last we checked, Maxis was the only entity in the Aether. 

However, I have to agree with you about Richtofen. I don't believe he is genuinely benevolent. After all, he straight up says in Origins that he seeks the staves for himself. 

Perhaps Maxis seeks to win the war for the Nazis by finally achieving what he failed to do at Kino when he attempted to mind-control the zombies? Just a thought, you have a good point...

The reason Richtofen wants the staffs himself is because he is at a point in his life where the events that happen in Origins would either make him a selfish monster bent on taking over the world or make him a selfless hero who wants to fix the story and resents what he could have become.

[NaBrZHunter]

@Nightmare Voyager I think that is a reasonable suggestion. Do we know which it becomes, though? It seems he will become heroic (please no ;-), but I think either is still possible. Like I said, though, it seems it's going to take a heroic route. 

[Garrett]

Hey @Garret, welcome to the forum! I like your thinking, keep it up! 

One particular thing I'd like to note/correct is that precedent states that the Aether can only be occupied by one individual (not including the 'something far more terrible' that Samantha describes. Sam filled the void, Richtofen displaced her, and Maxis displaced Richtofen, and Sam got pushed through to Agartha. I've got a post coming out today that I'm feeling pretty good about regarding the physics and nature of the Aether that should clarify. So last we checked, Maxis was the only entity in the Aether. 

 

Believe me, I don't claim to know everything there is to know about Nazi Zombies so I'm not asking sarcastically.    Where was it said that only one entity could occupy the Aether?    If you're referring to the MPD, then yes, I agree with that but I didn't know there was any limit on being in the Aether.   So I have my time table straight here, Samantha enters first via the MPD.   Richtofen enters next after switching bodies with Samantha on Moon.   Maxis enters the Aether after he is taken up in Origins and that's where you say he pushes Samantha out (as at that point in time, Richtofen has not yet switched bodies so it's only Samantha in the Aether.)?    So depending on which time table, it's either Maxis or Richtofen but following map logic, it would be post origins - Maxis who is currently in the Aether. Is that correct?   

I'll assume that's the case but I suppose it doesn't effect my theory too detrimentally.   Maxis could still be working behind the scenes of the Origins crew pushing his own agenda while Richtofen could still be either aware or suspicious of this and working towards his own ends.  The dichotomy of Maxis vs Richtofen is simply too interesting to ignore in my own opinion.   It played such a role in BO2 that I have a hard time believing it would go away for a singular goal, IE Richtofen saving the world or only Maxis' end game.    Being next gen, frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they really twisted this sucker up with perhaps a 3 sided game of chess.    Richtofen trying to do what he thinks is right, Maxis with his own end game, Samantha perhaps not agreeing with her dear old dad, or the other 3 heroes not wanting to play as pawns anymore.   There's just so much to split off into at this point and I have to give 3arch some credit, their trailer REALLY opened the door to some very wild story lines.   

And I must say, I find it EXTREMELY suspicious that Richtofen doesn't recognize our three Origins heroes as he has been experimenting on them at this point.   If he doesn't recognize them... is it early enough in the process that the unnamed Mexican might still be alive?   Not only that, Schuster and Groph might still be alive as well....  as might be Peter.   It's really mind melting at this point thinking of how many options there are for the dev's to take with this story now.   

 

 

[NaBrZHunter]

@Garret I actually appreciate you noting that! And JSYK, this is a rather friendly community. We get a little heated sometimes, but in the end, we're pretty much all comrades and work it out, so I hope you don't ever get the impression that I'm being condescending or high and mighty. 

That being said, I'm still working on a dissertation, it was supposed to be out Friday, but being a dad and a husband, probably ADHD and having 7 other writings in the works has taken its toll on my progress. I will have it out by tonight and drop you the link, which should hopefully help clear up my POV, which is, though heavily based on zombies canon, still always debatable. 

Anyway, actually, last we checked, believe it or not, no one occupies the Aether, which works perfectly for beginning a new cycle. This is based on Maxis' victory at Resolution 1295 in which he cast Richtofen out of the MPD and announced the beginning of the process of opening the gateway to Agartha, where Samantha has been since she was ousted at Griffin Station by Richtofen. Maxis then remained in the Aether until the gate was opened at Excavation Site 64, when he passed through the gateway into Agartha, leaving the Aether empty, ready to start the process again. 

I agree, which is one of the reasons I don't want to see Richtofen become a moral hero. Maxis never has been, either, but the problem is that they were both insane to a certain extent due to the effects of 115. Richtofen is no longer necessarily affected, however, Maxis actually may still be, as even at ES64 he was so exposed to it. So yeah, I agree, I would like to see the rivalry go on to a certain extent, unless the time has perhaps come to close the Aethereal gateway between Agartha and Earth. Things are definitely getting exciting!

Agreed! It may not be too late to save Groph and Schuster, which may very well be what Richtofen intends to do. Peter and the Mexican are indeed already dead, per Richtofen's logs found at the Siberian outpost, however. 

[NaBrZHunter]

@Garret I tried. I couldn't do it. My Aethereal thesis is only halfway finished. I have submitted the first half for approval in the Asylum section of the forums. I'll work on the rest tomorrow and hopefully have it approved soonish.

[Guest]

@Nightmare Voyager I think that is a reasonable suggestion. Do we know which it becomes, though? It seems he will become heroic (please no ;-), but I think either is still possible. Like I said, though, it seems it's going to take a heroic route. 

He's a hero in the Giant, I cannot imagine him being anything else because for once he isn't lying, things have changed. Bad Richtofen has no place in this loop, but if these guys fail he will come back. 

[NaBrZHunter]

@Nightmare Voyager I think that is a reasonable suggestion. Do we know which it becomes, though? It seems he will become heroic (please no ;-), but I think either is still possible. Like I said, though, it seems it's going to take a heroic route. 

 

He's a hero in the Giant, I cannot imagine him being anything else because for once he isn't lying, things have changed. Bad Richtofen has no place in this loop, but if these guys fail he will come back. 

Indeed, so it would seem.

[Guest]

@Nightmare Voyager I think that is a reasonable suggestion. Do we know which it becomes, though? It seems he will become heroic (please no ;-), but I think either is still possible. Like I said, though, it seems it's going to take a heroic route. 

 

He's a hero in the Giant, I cannot imagine him being anything else because for once he isn't lying, things have changed. Bad Richtofen has no place in this loop, but if these guys fail he will come back. 

Indeed, so it would seem.

Nope he won't turn bad no matter how much you want him too. I know what you are thinking :P

[NaBrZHunter]

@Nightmare Voyager I think that is a reasonable suggestion. Do we know which it becomes, though? It seems he will become heroic (please no ;-), but I think either is still possible. Like I said, though, it seems it's going to take a heroic route. 

 

He's a hero in the Giant, I cannot imagine him being anything else because for once he isn't lying, things have changed. Bad Richtofen has no place in this loop, but if these guys fail he will come back. 

Indeed, so it would seem.

 

Nope he won't turn bad no matter how much you want him too. I know what you are thinking :P

haha! Oh, I will never argue with what Treyarch dictates. It'll be epic, without a doubt. 

[Lucifer]

I like the awareness of power and time travel but one thing that bothers me.

The end of Buried and its relationship to the story as well the ending.

I mean we did see Buried being referenced in the Origins cinematic at the end. The more I think about it, it might be a story being told bu Samantha on how everything happened to their world. And the N4 storyline is simply a fantasy fan fiction to Origins.

[Guest]

I like the awareness of power and time travel but one thing that bothers me.

The end of Buried and its relationship to the story as well the ending.

I mean we did see Buried being referenced in the Origins cinematic at the end. The more I think about it, it might be a story being told bu Samantha on how everything happened to their world. And the N4 storyline is simply a fantasy fan fiction to Origins.

Or the ending of Origins is Sams perception of Agartha/ the Aether and now she is "freed" and Maxis is with her he can enact his plan which is to send the O4 to the Giant and change time.

[Garrett]

@Nightmare Voyager I think that is a reasonable suggestion. Do we know which it becomes, though? It seems he will become heroic (please no ;-), but I think either is still possible. Like I said, though, it seems it's going to take a heroic route. 

 

He's a hero in the Giant, I cannot imagine him being anything else because for once he isn't lying, things have changed. Bad Richtofen has no place in this loop, but if these guys fail he will come back. 

Things have changed, but how would he come back if they failed?   They've already succeeded, haven't they?   He's dead.  They've killed "evil" richtofen... the only way for him to come back and do the things he did is if Origins Richtofen does them, right? or am I missing something completely?  

We all know there's so much more to this but the fact that old richtofen is dead and cannot gain control is why I'm not sold on our current richtofen. Just seems way too easy.   I'm still thinking that Maxis has his own grand plan but that Richtofen is playing opossum.   The vials from Alcatraz really just makes me wonder what's going on here.  It does cross my mind that ORichtofen has perhaps tried to gain power from the ancient evil.   After all, Samantha has shown that she was able to reach back in time (or other dimensions) to manipulate the world and Richtofen has experienced some of that ancient power in Origins.   I have no proof or evidence to back it up but I just don't see Richtofen suddenly being this good guy out of the blue only because he wants to right his own wrongs...which would have happened already to a large extent by simply killing himself in the trailer.  The only thing left to do would be to dismantle 935, right?  

[Garrett]

I like the awareness of power and time travel but one thing that bothers me.

The end of Buried and its relationship to the story as well the ending.

I mean we did see Buried being referenced in the Origins cinematic at the end. The more I think about it, it might be a story being told bu Samantha on how everything happened to their world. And the N4 storyline is simply a fantasy fan fiction to Origins.

 

Or the ending of Origins is Sams perception of Agartha/ the Aether and now she is "freed" and Maxis is with her he can enact his plan which is to send the O4 to the Giant and change time.

The idea that the end cutscene of of Origins is in fact Samantha's Agartha does hold water with me though.  That we're simply seeing her construct of it.   I still think people jumped off the wagon way too early when figuring out what that really meant or that it was somehow a slap to the players face.   

[NaBrZHunter]

@Garret whatever the case may be, remember that Samantha had no influence from the time she was ousted at Griffin Station until after Origins. The idea that effected the reverse in time or brought the O4 back to origins is unfounded. There is no indication that an individual in Agartha has any influence over Terrestrial space-time. The precedent states that only Aethereal controllers have that capability. BTW-here's the thesis I told you I was writing about the Aether. It got so involved that I still haven't had a chance to discuss the controllers, but that is currently in the works and will hopefully be out by Thursday or so, depending on when it gets approved. 

Sounds like you and I are on the same page, though. Good luck, my friend, I hope we are right.

[Lucifer]

I have a "thesis" or hypothesis dealing with the " Seat of Agartha" , Time Travel, and Interdimensional Universes (if it seems that way). Hopefully I'll be done with it sooner than later. Whats stopping me is the contradiction or plot holes. I'll mention them and hopefully the community could correct my arguments and further support my prediction.

 

This game's story is just too good to end on such a vague ending. All of it exists but how does it exist, I have a vague answer for that.

 

[Guest]

I have a "thesis" or hypothesis dealing with the " Seat of Agartha" , Time Travel, and Interdimensional Universes (if it seems that way). Hopefully I'll be done with it sooner than later. Whats stopping me is the contradiction or plot holes. I'll mention them and hopefully the community could correct my arguments and further support my prediction.

 

This game's story is just too good to end on such a vague ending. All of it exists but how does it exist, I have a vague answer for that.

 

There doesn't need to be lots of different universes, just the Aether and Agartha.

[NaBrZHunter]

I have a "thesis" or hypothesis dealing with the " Seat of Agartha" , Time Travel, and Interdimensional Universes (if it seems that way). Hopefully I'll be done with it sooner than later. Whats stopping me is the contradiction or plot holes. I'll mention them and hopefully the community could correct my arguments and further support my prediction.

 

This game's story is just too good to end on such a vague ending. All of it exists but how does it exist, I have a vague answer for that.

 

 

There doesn't need to be lots of different universes, just the Aether and Agartha.

Here, here. We have never heard of any others, and at no point in the past have we ever seen an instance of duplication that would indicate that a multiverse exists. Agartha and the Aether are fully capable of explaining everything that has occurred to date.

[Garrett]

So, I ended up doing a video about my theory where I somewhat streamline and fine tune the theory but let me know here or there what you guys think.  (Also have a Shadows of Evil theory up there for you guys to check out if you want)  

https://youtu.be/qlqI-95woUE (The Giant Theory)  

[Lucifer]

Well...The Interdimensional Travel is half and half guys...I think I know where the game is heading too. It's going for the happy ending but a sacrifice from one of the main heroes.