We had the timeline wrong?

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

I know omnipotent isn't the right term for those in the Aether, it was just the first word that came to mind in my poor attempt at subtle humor.

Hahaha! Now I feel like a jerk. Excuse my legalism. 

Tis' is all good.

[Cunambula]

Love the thread...

I think area 51 is possibly Eagles nest, a bit less exciting, but there you have it.

 

Also, perhaps the Richtofen we have been hearing on the recordings is actually the "second" ricky, not the original as we all natural assume at first. ...Eureka

[TimelordAlex]

Are we to assume when the Wunderwaffe overloaded the teleporter the gun itself was damaged hence why it didnt appear in Kino and hasnt appeared since?

[NaBrZHunter]

Are we to assume when the Wunderwaffe overloaded the teleporter the gun itself was damaged hence why it didnt appear in Kino and hasnt appeared since?

I don't think that's an unreasonable suggestion. Though it does appear in CotD as if Richtofen trades it for the Golden Rod.

[TimelordAlex]

I don't think that's an unreasonable suggestion. Though it does appear in CotD as if Richtofen trades it for the Golden Rod.

ehh, i consider its appearence in COTD more fan service than being linked to the storyline, its just a powerup, you dont get it as a weapon.

[NaBrZHunter]

I don't think that's an unreasonable suggestion. Though it does appear in CotD as if Richtofen trades it for the Golden Rod.

ehh, i consider its appearence in COTD more fan service than being linked to the storyline, its just a powerup, you dont get it as a weapon.

I did think I would agree...your initial statement makes a lot of sense. But still...maybe that's why he gives it away. It stays until you're outta ammo. I refer particularly to gaining the DG-2 after finishing the Easter Egg. 

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

Regardless of what it status was before the end of BO2, I'm very much looking forward to having it back in The Giant and maybe future maps.

[TimelordAlex]

Regardless of what it status was before the end of BO2, I'm very much looking forward to having it back in The Giant and maybe future maps.

Yeah i hope it will come back in The Giant and acts the same as it should and hasnt been nerfed down or anything. I think the only way we will see the good old WWs again is if there maps get re-made again. But the Thundergun, Wunderwaffe and Winters Howl are not map exclusive WWs like the others are said to be, so they can be brought back. And also am I the only one who is sick of monkeys (pretty sure they were in every BO2 map)? Bring back my gersch device pleaseeee

[Lenne]

Timeline?

Isn't it a "Timecircle" at this point? 

Where is the door?

Seriously though. I love reading through threads like these.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

Regardless of what it status was before the end of BO2, I'm very much looking forward to having it back in The Giant and maybe future maps.

Yeah i hope it will come back in The Giant and acts the same as it should and hasnt been nerfed down or anything. I think the only way we will see the good old WWs again is if there maps get re-made again. But the Thundergun, Wunderwaffe and Winters Howl are not map exclusive WWs like the others are said to be, so they can be brought back. And also am I the only one who is sick of monkeys (pretty sure they were in every BO2 map)? Bring back my gersch device pleaseeee

*looks at name*

I was in the boat of no more monkeys a long time ago. And oh my god I forgot about how much I loved the Gersch Device, I was so happy to see it back in Moon. Honestly Black Ops just simply had the best assortment of WW's. Thundergun and the DG2 were simply just classics, really never got better than those. The Winter's Howl got a lot of heat but I enjoyed using it from time to time. Having some new and useful special grenades added in DLC maps was awesome. The Scavenger may not have been a OHK after a while, but was honestly still quite a literal blast to use, and the VR11 had the neat little invincible insta kill thing goin on. The babymaker was funny as hell to use, and could still wipe out a whole train too. And the Wave Gun came very close to being my favorite. Shoutout to the QED to being perhaps the most ingenious feature in zombies yet, too.

/WW appreciation, back to topic

[TimelordAlex]

The Wave Gun, The Shrink Ray, The Winters Howl are the top 3 WWs I want to return first. I would like the QED and Gersch to re-appear as well

[NaBrZHunter]

Timeline?

Isn't it a "Timecircle" at this point? 

Where is the door?

Seriously though. I love reading through threads like these.

I'm thinking it's more of a time loop. Think the Treyarch emblem. Left incline was WAW, top loop was Kino (first instance of time travel), the right decline is Kino-Buried, and the bottom right loopback the Maxis ending of Buried, making Origins the bottom segment, which brings us back, on the bottom-left loop, to WAW and (voila) Der Riese aka, The Giant. Just a thought.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

Timeline?

Isn't it a "Timecircle" at this point? 

Where is the door?

Seriously though. I love reading through threads like these.

I'm thinking it's more of a time loop. Think the Treyarch emblem. Left incline was WAW, top loop was Kino (first instance of time travel), the right decline is Kino-Buried, and the bottom right loopback the Maxis ending of Buried, making Origins the bottom segment, which brings us back, on the bottom-left loop, to WAW and (voila) Der Riese aka, The Giant. Just a thought.

I understand the connection to the Treyarch loop, while it's a novel idea, I'm not quite convinced of its legitimacy yet. That is partially due to the fact yet that I don't really understand how it could fit.

[Guest]

Maxis quotes about the time loop in Origins. Also there is the Die Rise intro which shows the loop happening again and the characters recognizing they have been to Die Rise before. There is a load of other stuff too like Mob of the Dead being there to set up how a simpler time loop works. It is easy to explain actually as well. The treyarch loop is an interesting one though, he has a good explanation for that but for now I am stuck trying to figure out if the Helix thing could be anything.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

Maxis quotes about the time loop in Origins. Also there is the Die Rise intro which shows the loop happening again and the characters recognizing they have been to Die Rise before. There is a load of other stuff too like Mob of the Dead being there to set up how a simpler time loop works. It is easy to explain actually as well. The treyarch loop is an interesting one though, he has a good explanation for that but for now I am stuck trying to figure out if the Helix thing could be anything.

I understand how time loops fit into the story, but what we have been shown is that the loops have been limited to the individual maps as a whole. As showcased in Die Rise, they die and are revive right back at Die Rise, not at Tranzit like the loop would suggest being the beginning of BO2. That's what confuses me.

[Guest]

Maxis quotes about the time loop in Origins. Also there is the Die Rise intro which shows the loop happening again and the characters recognizing they have been to Die Rise before. There is a load of other stuff too like Mob of the Dead being there to set up how a simpler time loop works. It is easy to explain actually as well. The treyarch loop is an interesting one though, he has a good explanation for that but for now I am stuck trying to figure out if the Helix thing could be anything.

I understand how time loops fit into the story, but what we have been shown is that the loops have been limited to the individual maps as a whole. As showcased in Die Rise, they die and are revive right back at Die Rise, not at Tranzit like the loop would suggest being the beginning of BO2. That's what confuses me.

I don't think there are time loops at individual maps. All maps are looped and when the characters die there isn't anything left to see so we restart the loop. Thats what happens in the Die Rise intro, theres evidence of the loop in Buried, Origins etc. It wouldn't make sense for MotD to focus so big on the loop as opposed to other maps, it makes more sense that it is showing an easier explanation as to the nature of the big loop. Hence why characters remember stuff they shouldn't. You can't have all the maps being in separate loops because that would mean they would have to break it each time. It makes more sense for there to be a big loop that we still haven't broken yet. It explains how we are following linear stuff like Ascension to Moon and Tranzit to Buried without them getting trapped in a time loop, it doesn't really work like that.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

Well in the case of the N4, Rictofen/Maxis was actually trying to get them to accomplish something for him, so it stands to reason that he would break the loop after they completed the task at hand, and they move on to the next map. As for when we were following the O4, Rictofen probably had knowledge of how to break the cycle after coming in contact with the MPD.

I believe there was such a strong emphasis on the loop in MotD because they had just introduced the idea of the loop in Die Rise and were further illustrating it here. It is further showcased in Buried with all the dead bodies of the N4. 

[NaBrZHunter]

Once again, great discussion, guys. 

@Kill_All_Monkeys Yeah, I don't stand by the Treyach emblem theory as of yet, but it doesn't seem wholly unlikely, based on their history of self-integration (Richtofen's references to "Treya-I mean, the Illuminati,'" as well as the Treyach emblems in Shangri-La and Origins. So yeah, no biggie. 

But on the other hand, it does support the linear-loop timeline suggestion, since it creates a loop out of the whole story as opposed to just in a single map.

Whereas I do support the "time pocket" idea, (Der Riese clock stops, "compressed" time pocket created in which three events occur) I cannot say I believe it is an independent loop that must be broken, but I don't know how it ends...or whether it ever even did did for Sam, ergo:

Original Timeline:

Richtofen Teleports Maxis and Sam
|
Time Pocket Created
____________________________________|____________________________________

Maxis sent to cavern            Samantha arrives at Griffin Station       Richtofen Escapes to CotD/SSN 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New Timeline

Richtofen Teleports Maxis and Sam
|
Time Pocket Created
____________________________________|____________________________________

Maxis sent to cavern     Samantha arrives at Griffin Station    NO4 arrive at Der Riese, kill ORichtofen 

 

Richtofen would seem to have broken out of it, however, but time travelling out of it. I don't know how Samantha would have, though....

 

[Tattoo247]

Nice idea, it definitely puts things in a new perspective. Although I'll add something I've always thought was odd, even though I believe Der Riese came first, or at least I used to, not so sure now.

 

Fluffy was turned into a hellhound in Der Riese right? But there are hell hounds in SNN, it may be a simple mistake in the story, but it had always gave me confirmation that they were being chased FROM Der Riese, to SNN.

 

Sorry if it was brought up already, I skimmed the first page and didn't read the second >.> 

Edited November 1, 2015 by Tattoo247

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

7 hours ago, Tattoo247 said:

Nice idea, it definitely puts things in a new perspective. Although I'll add something I've always thought was odd, even though I believe Der Riese came first, or at least I used to, not so sure now.

 

Fluffy was turned into a hellhound in Der Riese right? But there are hell hounds in SNN, it may be a simple mistake in the story, but it had always gave me confirmation that they were being chased FROM Der Riese, to SNN.

 

Sorry if it was brought up already, I skimmed the first page and didn't read the second >.> 

The radio in which Fluffy came back through the teleporter as the first hellhound occured before the events of SNN, Rictofen then went and retrieved the 3 remaining test subjects from whatever base they were being kept at and took them to SNN. And I think after the zombies initially broke out at Der Riese they spread out all over Europe (basically the first 3 maps of W@W showing the outbreak spreading, with SNN being more or less the start of the O4's story) and them finally traveling back to Der Riese where it all began.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

On 9/18/2015, 7:44:50, TimelordAlex said:

Are we to assume when the Wunderwaffe overloaded the teleporter the gun itself was damaged hence why it didnt appear in Kino and hasnt appeared since?

I actually think they kept it and gave it to the COTD crew. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Stop Mocking Me0 said:

I actually think they kept it and gave it to the COTD crew. 

 

Yeah it was a trade. Vril Device for the Wunderwaffe. To be honest its one of the reasons I don't think Kino comes after Shi No Numa.

[DeathBringerZen]

I have never believed Shi No Numa came before Der Riese and I never will. I can see why some think it might but it doesn't tie in to the storyline I have going in my head so I chose to dismiss the idea completely.

 

The unique thing about zombies is that we can all determain the storyline from start to present and each idividual comes to a unique conclusion. That is the magic of this precious and wonderful storyline... it is far to vague to be conclusive so we all have our own interpretation. Unfortunately some sides of the community like BennDown try to force their own version on others as factual and refuse to take on other perspectives, instead claiming all other perceptions as false and deluded.

 

This is why people should not follow these channels and should form their own opinions on the whole concept. Treyarch never meant for the story to be that of one man... it was for us all to make our own storyline to fit our own desires. Never take the opinion of others as fact, only as a way to re-mold our own story. There is not one idividual who has the correct version of events. We all make it up as we go along... ALL of us.

[NaBrZHunter]

@DeathBringerZen

@Nightmare Voyager

 

Dempsey states at Ascension that Shi No Numa was the first time he remembers seeing Richtofen. However, they fought alongside each other at Der Riese, where the MTD is overloaded by the Wunderwaffe DG-2, sending them to Kino. It doesn't make any sense that he would have no memory of Der Riese whatsoever.

[Tattoo247]

Quick question, if SNN happens before Der Riese, why in the new cutscene is Richtofen about to wake up the other 3, when the outbreak has already happened?

 

Assuming we take control after the cutscene ends, there would be zombies every where, and hell hounds...