Multidimensional or Multiverse

[NaBrZHunter]

I would really like to see some numbers from this forum as to who ascribes to which concept. So drop your opinion on the Poll and let's see some stats!

Even if your belief varies from one of the definitions below to a certain extent, please attempt to choose the most appropriate one.

 

Multidimensional: for the purpose of this poll, the conviction that Zombies takes place SOLELY across 3 separate, unique, non-parallel realms: Earth, Agartha, the Aether, and any other unique realm that might be expressly defined; and that all events, maps, and time loops or cycles take place in and across those three ONLY.

 

Multiverse: Clearly accepts the idea of Agartha and the Aether, but proposes that the Zombies storyline has multiple universes, parallel or replicating, with duplicate but varying persons and events occurring in each.

 

I personally will not be shaken from the multidimensional viewpoint unless Treyarch themselves state that a multiverse exists, at which point my respect for the whole story will plummet. I believe that Multiverse is a cop-out, as anything can be changed without logical explanation other than "it's a different universe." I also believe that we have been given enough evidence to date to determine that the interaction between the three known dimensions is enough to explain the inter-dimensional occurrences that have been occurring since December 4, 1939.

[Guest]

Multi Dimensional because of the evidence shown throughout BO2 and because I have been an avid believer of the time loop for a long time now :P

[Shooter]

Multidimensional. Without question.

 

From Maxis' Diary:

"I fear that time is running out.

Though my understanding of the ethereal realm remains limited, I am convinced that the manipulation of the energy fields within all matter is vital to uncovering the dimensional gateway itself.

It is my sincerest hope that somewhere in the realm beyond, my beloved Samantha still lives.

I can only pray that Edward's insatiable lust for power does not prove catastrophic."

 

The only supporting evidence for multiple universes is the second Richtofen in the Giant trailer. And I have a feeling Treyarch will explain it without resorting to "it's a parallel universe". But who knows maybe they'll take the easy way out.

Let's hope not.

 

[Rissole25]

Probably a silly question, but is it possible for it to be both or is that not possible?

[Shooter]

Probably a silly question, but is it possible for it to be both or is that not possible?

It's totally possible. You never know where Treyarch will go with BO3.

But thus far in our story, everything can be explained without parallel universes. Plus they are never mentioned throughout the story.

I just don't think we go to a parallel universe every time we go back in time. When we die and go back in time to repeat the events, we still go back to our universe, it's just not the present. We are in another dimension of time, which is what Aether is.

Same universe, different dimension.

 

[NaBrZHunter]

Probably a silly question, but is it possible for it to be both or is that not possible?

It's totally possible. You never know where Treyarch will go with BO3.

But thus far in our story, everything can be explained without parallel universes. Plus they are never mentioned throughout the story.

I just don't think we go to a parallel universe every time we go back in time. When we die and go back in time to repeat the events, we still go back to our universe, it's just not the present. We are in another dimension of time, which is what Aether is.

Same universe, different dimension.

 

Actually, I phrased the definitions in such a way as to accommodate that.

Multidimensional - Rejects the idea of anything besides the Aether, Agartha, and Earth, or any other unique realm that might be introduced

Multiverse - Accepts the Aether, Agartha, Earth, and any other realm that might be introduced, while also proposing that these "unique realms" have parallel equivalents.

So @Rissole25, you would be in the Multiverse camp.   

"Meet the Aether!"
-Samantha when using the Gersch Device

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Neither, I believe in a constant continuum. It's always the same universe, (until one of the ends of buried), but each time the entire universe dies, is reborn, and continues forward different each time due to the events of the universe before. 

 

For example, maxis becomes aetheric king, the universe is reborn normally over and over, until a Schrodinger's cat scenario goes down where Richthofen wins, thus leading to a different universe where there are different things happening (origins). 

[NaBrZHunter]

Neither, I believe in a constant continuum. It's always the same universe, (until one of the ends of buried), but each time the entire universe dies, is reborn, and continues forward different each time due to the events of the universe before. 

 

For example, maxis becomes aetheric king, the universe is reborn normally over and over, until a Schrodinger's cat scenario goes down where Richthofen wins, thus leading to a different universe where there are different things happening (origins). 

For all intents and purposes, that actually falls under the 'replication' concept of Multiverse. Multiverse is not strictly parallel universes, but fundamentally the idea that there are multiple instead of one, as the Multidimensional school of thought proposes. 

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

I definitely will support Multidimensional until Treyarch outright says otherwise. I would also prefer it to stay that way because time travel in a complex story like zombies is far easier to grasp when there's only one universe involved. Also the Multiverse kind of makes a lot of actions and events feel pointless and really is a bit of a cop-out. It just makes the story more interesting having it all take place within the same universe.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Well no, there isn't multiple universes it's one that keeps dying and coming back. 

[MysteryMachineX]

I haven't been around for a while, but I always felt the answer was both things, mainly because the realms are practically defined, whereas the timelines involved inherently make such a thing have parallel timelines, i.e. universes. (Referencing here the 8 or so different "universes" (a.k.a. timelines) where Brock and Gary died horribly.) That depends on which dose of time travel theory you believe, but I think Zombies uses a vague enough version of one to justify such a viewpoint.

[NaBrZHunter]

I haven't been around for a while, but I always felt the answer was both things, mainly because the realms are practically defined, whereas the timelines involved inherently make such a thing have parallel timelines, i.e. universes. (Referencing here the 8 or so different "universes" (a.k.a. timelines) where Brock and Gary died horribly.) That depends on which dose of time travel theory you believe, but I think Zombies uses a vague enough version of one to justify such a viewpoint.

That's what the 'Multiverse' option states. I tried to make them as general as possible, so that pretty much if you believe that there is a multiverse, option 2 would be acceptable. 

[MysteryMachineX]

Sorry, I didn't see that. Then I guess that explains that. Thank you.

[NaBrZHunter]

Sorry, I didn't see that. Then I guess that explains that. Thank you.

It's cool! Just want to make sure you know I was trying to avoid excluding valid viewpoints. 

[NaBrZHunter]

Well no, there isn't multiple universes it's one that keeps dying and coming back. 

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. 

[Guest]

Well no, there isn't multiple universes it's one that keeps dying and coming back. 

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. 

Thats how the time loop works kinda maybe. The universe would end when the loop restarts.

[Shooter]

Well no, there isn't multiple universes it's one that keeps dying and coming back. 

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. 

Thats how the time loop works kinda maybe. The universe would end when the loop restarts.

I personally don't think the universe can be created and destroyed like that.

Does anyone remember the morse code from Tranzit? One of the messages was "Energy can only be transformed". It was referencing Einstein's theory: 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.'.

The same applies to the universe (which is just a big ball of energy really). Universes, like energy, cannot be created or destroyed, but only transformed.

 

 

[Guest]

Well no, there isn't multiple universes it's one that keeps dying and coming back. 

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. 

Thats how the time loop works kinda maybe. The universe would end when the loop restarts.

 

I personally don't think the universe can be created and destroyed like that.

Does anyone remember the morse code from Tranzit? One of the messages was "Energy can only be transformed". It was referencing Einstein's theory: 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.'.

The same applies to the universe (which is just a big ball of energy really). Universes, like energy, cannot be created or destroyed, but only transformed.

 

 

I am pretty sure the lights said Knowledge is Power? But anyone's all the energy would get taken down and used to recreate the universe but I don't know I am not a quantum physicist and I only understand how time loops work to the degree of their nature and what they cause.

[NaBrZHunter]

Well no, there isn't multiple universes it's one that keeps dying and coming back. 

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. 

Thats how the time loop works kinda maybe. The universe would end when the loop restarts.

Meh...I can't say I believe it actually ends. That seems kind of extraneous. Kinda like in The Murderer of Time, how New Years never came. The time machine holds it in loop, always starting again before the end.

[Guest]

Well no, there isn't multiple universes it's one that keeps dying and coming back. 

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. 

Thats how the time loop works kinda maybe. The universe would end when the loop restarts.

Meh...I can't say I believe it actually ends. That seems kind of extraneous. Kinda like in The Murderer of Time, how New Years never came. The time machine holds it in loop, always starting again before the end.

But that still technically counts as an end is what I am saying. Every story has a beginning and an end.

[NaBrZHunter]

Well no, there isn't multiple universes it's one that keeps dying and coming back. 

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. 

Thats how the time loop works kinda maybe. The universe would end when the loop restarts.

 

I personally don't think the universe can be created and destroyed like that.

Does anyone remember the morse code from Tranzit? One of the messages was "Energy can only be transformed". It was referencing Einstein's theory: 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.'.

The same applies to the universe (which is just a big ball of energy really). Universes, like energy, cannot be created or destroyed, but only transformed.

That's a great point, Shooter. Thanks for clarifying that. And yes, it's true that a story may end, Nightmare, but that's the cycle point, not a recreation. See, I'm in IT, so I view it from a data protection perspective. Your actions create, as it were 'restore points,' or okay, heck, in gaming we have save points. So when everything goes to hell, if there is a controller in the Aether, he can invoke a restore point. He cannot take people back in time, but he can take time back to them.

And the debate begins. Y'know, I'm going to remove that request from the post above. This is a great topic to discuss, always. 

[Guest]

Whoever is in the aether cannot restart the time loop, they don't have that much power. If they did Samantha would have ended the story already, especially after Origins. Anyone in the aether has little power actually, less then anyone thinks. The time loop has everyone trapped. No matter where you are or how powerful you get, the time loop is its own thing and nobody controls that. Time travel doesn't work like a game, I don't mean a video game I mean like a childs game which is how everyone in the aether is treating it. They think its there big shot to control the world but ultimately its all for nothing when time resets. No one controls time.

[NaBrZHunter]

Whoever is in the aether cannot restart the time loop, they don't have that much power. If they did Samantha would have ended the story already, especially after Origins. Anyone in the aether has little power actually, less then anyone thinks. The time loop has everyone trapped. No matter where you are or how powerful you get, the time loop is its own thing and nobody controls that. Time travel doesn't work like a game, I don't mean a video game I mean like a childs game which is how everyone in the aether is treating it. They think its there big shot to control the world but ultimately its all for nothing when time resets. No one controls time.

That is a very conservative opinion, and I actually have a lot of respect for it. I will argue the contrary, however, so bear with me.

I agree that the Aethereal controller does not "control" time, per se, but has moments where he can manipulate it to a certain extent, depending on the power he has (end of Buried) and only to a point in time where the people he is manipulating, as well as himself, exist. If, however, they were not in a position of control at that time, they would be forced back to where they were at that time, and therefore, out of the MPD.

Richtofen takes the N4 back to the time of their initial arrival at Die Rise. This requires little energy, as it was likely no more than an hours' length in time. He was, however, in the MPD at both the time of their death at Die Rise and the time of their arrival at Die Rise, and therefore, taking them back to a position an hour earlier did not jeopardize his power by forcing him out.

Maxis resets time to 1918 after Buried (all polarization devices channel the power he needs), erasing anyone not born at the time, but returning everyone who WAS born at that time (himself and the O4) to their position, but not without butterfly effect. The N4 do not survive, as they were not originally alive in 1918. Samantha, however, does, despite the fact that she was not born until the early to mid 30s', because she is on a different space-time continuum. 
This action, however, forces Maxis out of his position of power in  the MPD, as it returns him to where he was in 1918, but since Samantha is his fail safe of knowledge, he can rely on her to remember the things he would have forgotten in the transition.

The MPD is now prepared for re-occupation. Black Ops 3, The Giant: let the conflict begin again.

[Guest]

Whoever is in the aether cannot restart the time loop, they don't have that much power. If they did Samantha would have ended the story already, especially after Origins. Anyone in the aether has little power actually, less then anyone thinks. The time loop has everyone trapped. No matter where you are or how powerful you get, the time loop is its own thing and nobody controls that. Time travel doesn't work like a game, I don't mean a video game I mean like a childs game which is how everyone in the aether is treating it. They think its there big shot to control the world but ultimately its all for nothing when time resets. No one controls time.

That is a very conservative opinion, and I actually have a lot of respect for it. I will argue the contrary, however, so bear with me.

I agree that the Aethereal controller does not "control" time, per se, but has moments where he can manipulate it to a certain extent, depending on the power he has (end of Buried) and only to a point in time where the people he is manipulating, as well as himself, exist. If, however, they were not in a position of control at that time, they would be forced back to where they were at that time, and therefore, out of the MPD.

Richtofen takes the N4 back to the time of their initial arrival at Die Rise. This requires little energy, as it was likely no more than an hours' length in time. He was, however, in the MPD at both the time of their death at Die Rise and the time of their arrival at Die Rise, and therefore, taking them back to a position an hour earlier did not jeopardize his power by forcing him out.

Maxis resets time to 1918 after Buried (all polarization devices channel the power he needs), erasing anyone not born at the time, but returning everyone who WAS born at that time (himself and the O4) to their position, but not without butterfly effect. The N4 do not survive, as they were not originally alive in 1918. Samantha, however, does, despite the fact that she was not born until the early to mid 30s', because she is on a different space-time continuum. 
This action, however, forces Maxis out of his position of power in  the MPD, as it returns him to where he was in 1918, but since Samantha is his fail safe of knowledge, he can rely on her to remember the things he would have forgotten in the transition.

The MPD is now prepared for re-occupation. Black Ops 3, The Giant: let the conflict begin again.

Nope. Die Rise shows the loop ending and then beginning again but specifically skipping out the rest of the story to get to Die Rise. Hence them remembering it. Thats the time loop. Nobody resets it, we don't know which ending if any is canon, Buried amy not even be the end of that loop, aether is barely anything to time they don't have that cotnrol otherwise we wouldn't barely have a story every controller would have messed that up. As far as I know the Aether is timeless actually, same with Agartha. So Richtofen could still be in control by Origins and Sam should still be in his body as a result but she isn't so something happened for everyone to return to their rightful place, the time loop isn't an exact reset it still carries over the memories and the feelings of the last loop vaguely hence the Origins group trusting each other and a load of other stuff I don't really need to go into. The MPD has nothing to do with time travel, it has to do with controlling zombies. Time travel and more specifically the loop is bigger than puny humans fighting to become "god".

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

Whoever is in the aether cannot restart the time loop, they don't have that much power. If they did Samantha would have ended the story already, especially after Origins. Anyone in the aether has little power actually, less then anyone thinks. The time loop has everyone trapped. No matter where you are or how powerful you get, the time loop is its own thing and nobody controls that. Time travel doesn't work like a game, I don't mean a video game I mean like a childs game which is how everyone in the aether is treating it. They think its there big shot to control the world but ultimately its all for nothing when time resets. No one controls time.

That is a very conservative opinion, and I actually have a lot of respect for it. I will argue the contrary, however, so bear with me.

I agree that the Aethereal controller does not "control" time, per se, but has moments where he can manipulate it to a certain extent, depending on the power he has (end of Buried) and only to a point in time where the people he is manipulating, as well as himself, exist. If, however, they were not in a position of control at that time, they would be forced back to where they were at that time, and therefore, out of the MPD.

Richtofen takes the N4 back to the time of their initial arrival at Die Rise. This requires little energy, as it was likely no more than an hours' length in time. He was, however, in the MPD at both the time of their death at Die Rise and the time of their arrival at Die Rise, and therefore, taking them back to a position an hour earlier did not jeopardize his power by forcing him out.

Maxis resets time to 1918 after Buried (all polarization devices channel the power he needs), erasing anyone not born at the time, but returning everyone who WAS born at that time (himself and the O4) to their position, but not without butterfly effect. The N4 do not survive, as they were not originally alive in 1918. Samantha, however, does, despite the fact that she was not born until the early to mid 30s', because she is on a different space-time continuum. 
This action, however, forces Maxis out of his position of power in  the MPD, as it returns him to where he was in 1918, but since Samantha is his fail safe of knowledge, he can rely on her to remember the things he would have forgotten in the transition.

The MPD is now prepared for re-occupation. Black Ops 3, The Giant: let the conflict begin again.

 

Nope. Die Rise shows the loop ending and then beginning again but specifically skipping out the rest of the story to get to Die Rise. Hence them remembering it. Thats the time loop. Nobody resets it, we don't know which ending if any is canon, Buried amy not even be the end of that loop, aether is barely anything to time they don't have that cotnrol otherwise we wouldn't barely have a story every controller would have messed that up. As far as I know the Aether is timeless actually, same with Agartha. So Richtofen could still be in control by Origins and Sam should still be in his body as a result but she isn't so something happened for everyone to return to their rightful place, the time loop isn't an exact reset it still carries over the memories and the feelings of the last loop vaguely hence the Origins group trusting each other and a load of other stuff I don't really need to go into. The MPD has nothing to do with time travel, it has to do with controlling zombies. Time travel and more specifically the loop is bigger than puny humans fighting to become "god".

One thing I can think of that supports this is how in MotD Weasel has the one line about hearing Nikolai's name over and over.