Multidimensional or Multiverse

[Guest]

Why does he hear Nikolai anyways? He also made a comic with the raygun in. Oh and the Icarus thing itself is something. I wonder if he has any influence over time since stuff he seems to make ends up existing in it but not just out of thin air. 

[NaBrZHunter]

Nope. Die Rise shows the loop ending and then beginning again but specifically skipping out the rest of the story to get to Die Rise. Hence them remembering it. Thats the time loop. Nobody resets it, we don't know which ending if any is canon, Buried amy not even be the end of that loop, aether is barely anything to time they don't have that cotnrol otherwise we wouldn't barely have a story every controller would have messed that up. As far as I know the Aether is timeless actually, same with Agartha. 

 Once again, I like your thinking.

Right, a cycle is created at Die Rise. One end to the cycle is their death, which starts the cycle again, while the other is them powering up the pylon, which breaks the cycle. But what was the catalyst for initiating a cycle in the first place? What keeps Richtofen and Maxis from just leaving them dead at Die Rise, and getting another team? So it would seem to me that there is a catalyst for these time loops-and I agree with you about the Aether being timeless. I envisioned it as a realm-like an energy field-consistent with all recorded time (excludes the future, hence why controllers have been outwitted by those outside the MPD.) It has vision of, but not influence over all time. Did y'all listen to "The Murderer of Time?" I know it's not canon, and Treyarch is a lot more complex than that, but it would support the idea that there is a catalyst who/that determines the parameters of a cycle.

So Richtofen could still be in control by Origins and Sam should still be in his body as a result but she isn't so something happened for everyone to return to their rightful place, the time loop isn't an exact reset it still carries over the memories and the feelings of the last loop vaguely hence the Origins group trusting each other and a load of other stuff I don't really need to go into. The MPD has nothing to do with time travel, it has to do with controlling zombies. Time travel and more specifically the loop is bigger than puny humans fighting to become "god".

Agreed, since it is a "loop," that is what I meant by a butterfly effect (which may be the wrong use of that), is remnants of memories and events and technology that cause effect at an earlier point in time. Note how, just like Weasel's comments about Nikolai, Richtofen claims, in Origins, to have designed the Ray Gun, saying he had a dream of it that inspired its creation. He may be having remnant memories. @Kill_All_Monkeys

I can't agree about Weasel being an influence on time, however. He seems pretty clueless. He may have created the comic books and the ray gun based on his subconscious Aethereal connection to the others. Like a vision. He thinks its his own idea, but it's actually inspired by real events that he is only aware of due to his subconscious Aethereal proximity to the others who have been dragged into this cross-dimensional conflict. Or could it be that Weasel is a WWI veteran?

And you're probably actually right about the MPD having nothing to do with time travel...it seems to just be a signal conduit for psycho-communication. But every action has an equal and opposite reaction. There must be a catalyst for resetting time.

The thing about the "destruction" of the universe idea is that Maxis said that the EARTH and its inhabitants would not survive. Were the earth to implode, the rest of the universe would still continue on, in a quiet, dead manner without humanity. Time and space itself would have to be destroyed, but Maxis simply stated that Earth would be. 

...my brain hurts.

 

[Guest]

I don't think you are getting it. The WHOLE STORY is in the time loop. All of it. The reason in Die Rise that when they die we get them coming back is because it isn't showing us what happens after that point because without the N4 nothing can progress so we skip however long till the time loop resets and then instead of showing us the loop all the way through again (as in Origins to Die Rise) it just shows us at Die Rise again because there would be no point in 3arch showing the story happen again, but it did happen we just don't see it happen all again because we never do when we start a game of zombies up.

Your right about the Earth and whatever but not about where the time loop essentially begins and ends. We do not know when the time loop starts yet, the earliest date we can pinpoint is Origins and even then you have to have an open mind since it happened in a different way than we saw in game. The furthest we have gotten in the loop is Buried and theres a reason that we haven't really seen anything after that. The N4 messed up. From Tranzit they messed up really, helping either Maxis or Richtofen leads to nothing good at all. Not even slightly. The N4 will always die in Buried and Richtofens side and what they describe the Wisp as is proof of that. They failed so we either have some other group carry events on from Buried (thats depending what side you choose if any since they both end bad) so what really happens is the loop as far as we know ends after Buried. It will have an end time because its a time loop, that doesn't mean that it has a set date to end like oh it ends in 1964 or something, time travelling has messed any chance of that up. It means when the reason the loop started has been exhausted and nothing more can come then it resets and goes back to the start. Then it all happens again with changes obviously in it. When the Earth is destroyed, unless the O4 are still on the Moon and can do something then theres nothing left to do so we reset.

[NaBrZHunter]

I don't think you are getting it. The WHOLE STORY is in the time loop. All of it. The reason in Die Rise that when they die we get them coming back is because it isn't showing us what happens after that point because without the N4 nothing can progress so we skip however long till the time loop resets and then instead of showing us the loop all the way through again (as in Origins to Die Rise) it just shows us at Die Rise again because there would be no point in 3arch showing the story happen again, but it did happen we just don't see it happen all again because we never do when we start a game of zombies up.

Your right about the Earth and whatever but not about where the time loop essentially begins and ends. We do not know when the time loop starts yet, the earliest date we can pinpoint is Origins and even then you have to have an open mind since it happened in a different way than we saw in game. The furthest we have gotten in the loop is Buried and theres a reason that we haven't really seen anything after that. The N4 messed up. From Tranzit they messed up really, helping either Maxis or Richtofen leads to nothing good at all. Not even slightly. The N4 will always die in Buried and Richtofens side and what they describe the Wisp as is proof of that. They failed so we either have some other group carry events on from Buried (thats depending what side you choose if any since they both end bad) so what really happens is the loop as far as we know ends after Buried. It will have an end time because its a time loop, that doesn't mean that it has a set date to end like oh it ends in 1964 or something, time travelling has messed any chance of that up. It means when the reason the loop started has been exhausted and nothing more can come then it resets and goes back to the start. Then it all happens again with changes obviously in it. When the Earth is destroyed, unless the O4 are still on the Moon and can do something then theres nothing left to do so we reset.

Ahhhh...so that's what what you're saying makes so much sense. LOL! Great point. Brains to you. Thanks for bearing with me. I'll have to think this over more, but you have a great open-minded viewpoint.

[Guest]

Yeah I also have a big headache talking about all this stuff and trying to disprove what I say at the same time as agreeing with it lol.

[NaBrZHunter]

Yeah I also have a big headache talking about all this stuff and trying to disprove what I say at the same time as agreeing with it lol.

Hahaha! Exactly. 

Actually, fill me in. Why does the wisp prove that they always die? I'm not doubting it, I just don't know much about the wisp. I'm listening to all their quote compilations, but I haven't made it to Buried yet.

[Guest]

Yeah I also have a big headache talking about all this stuff and trying to disprove what I say at the same time as agreeing with it lol.

Hahaha! Exactly. 

Actually, fill me in. Why does the wisp prove that they always die? I'm not doubting it, I just don't know much about the wisp. I'm listening to all their quote compilations, but I haven't made it to Buried yet.

http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/index.php?/topic/178682-buried-easter-egg-theory/

 

My favourite theory its about the Wisp being the N4's souls carrying over from one loop to the next because it is used with the time bomb.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Well simply put, mater must be able to be created and maybe destroyed. Otherwise mater wouldn't exist. At some point there had to be nothing. 

[Guest]

Well simply put, mater must be able to be created and maybe destroyed. Otherwise mater wouldn't exist. At some point there had to be nothing. 

You can't just say things like that so broadly when time travel is a factor.

[NaBrZHunter]

Well simply put, mater must be able to be created and maybe destroyed. Otherwise mater wouldn't exist. At some point there had to be nothing. 

 

You can't just say things like that so broadly when time travel is a factor.

From a Christian perspective, you are absolutely right. But from a purely scientific perspective of status quo, matter cannot be destroyed, and I'm pretty sure Treyarch wouldn't violate one of the best known laws of matter. Please note-I have no intention of coming across as smart-assed. I geuinely believe that. They seem to do a lot of research into their science fiction, the same way they do with their political and mechanical fiction. 

[Guest]

Well simply put, mater must be able to be created and maybe destroyed. Otherwise mater wouldn't exist. At some point there had to be nothing. 

 

You can't just say things like that so broadly when time travel is a factor.

From a Christian perspective, you are absolutely right. But from a purely scientific perspective of status quo, matter cannot be destroyed, and I'm pretty sure Treyarch wouldn't violate one of the best known laws of matter. Please note-I have no intention of coming across as smart-assed. I geuinely believe that. They seem to do a lot of research into their science fiction, the same way they do with their political and mechanical fiction. 

Technically even when there was nothing there would've been god. Just saying XD

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

I don't think that's the Butterfly effect, that kind of doesn't really take time travel into account. I believe it would be better to describe it as the bleeding effect. Think of the Assassins Creed games early on, the goal was for Desmond to go into the memories of his ancestors and experience everything as they experienced it themselves and in doing so he would be able to gain the same abilities as the master assassins.

Now with zombies, we see this come into play with Weasel quite a bit. This is not necessarily him being able to predict or influence the future, it's just the memories of the previous time loops leaving an imprint on the most recently created time loop. The idea is that this has happened many, many times. Perhaps even countless amount of times. And there's always small amount of variations in each new one, and sometimes big changes as well. This how the characters can fail so many times but eventually succeed in the various EE's we've done throughout the maps. Eventually the memories of how to successfully do everything build up and they complete the task at hand. This I can liken to the film Edge Of Tomorrow, within which Tom Cruise's character kept reliving the same exact day over and over again with his memory completely unaffected by the time reset, despite it being caused by his death, trying the stop the alien being controlling the time reset.

Now in regards to the bigger picture here, I would like to propose the idea that the time loop begins somewhere around the time of  the end of the Der Riese radios. I believe this to be so because of Maxis and Samantha's choice to send the Origin crew to the point in time where Rictofen traps and teleports Samantha and Maxis. Maybe it's the exact point in which Sam enters the MPD, as it would be the first time (in relative modern history) that a human has entered the MPD, which seems like a pretty good ripple in time to reset back to. I also believe that for the N4, Rictofen succeeds in influencing the N4 first, and once they get to the end at Buried and see all the dead bodies so many times, this could've subconsciously convinced them to side with Maxis at Tranzit instead of Rictofen, giving way to the jump back to Origins.

Phew, this is some complicated stuff. 

[Guest]

I don't think that's the Butterfly effect, that kind of doesn't really take time travel into account. I believe it would be better to describe it as the bleeding effect. Think of the Assassins Creed games early on, the goal was for Desmond to go into the memories of his ancestors and experience everything as they experienced it themselves and in doing so he would be able to gain the same abilities as the master assassins.

Now with zombies, we see this come into play with Weasel quite a bit. This is not necessarily him being able to predict or influence the future, it's just the memories of the previous time loops leaving an imprint on the most recently created time loop. The idea is that this has happened many, many times. Perhaps even countless amount of times. And there's always small amount of variations in each new one, and sometimes big changes as well. This how the characters can fail so many times but eventually succeed in the various EE's we've done throughout the maps. Eventually the memories of how to successfully do everything build up and they complete the task at hand. This I can liken to the film Edge Of Tomorrow, within which Tom Cruise's character kept reliving the same exact day over and over again with his memory completely unaffected by the time reset, despite it being caused by his death, trying the stop the alien being controlling the time reset.

Now in regards to the bigger picture here, I would like to propose the idea that the time loop begins somewhere around the time of  the end of the Der Riese radios. I believe this to be so because of Maxis and Samantha's choice to send the Origin crew to the point in time where Rictofen traps and teleports Samantha and Maxis. Maybe it's the exact point in which Sam enters the MPD, as it would be the first time (in relative modern history) that a human has entered the MPD, which seems like a pretty good ripple in time to reset back to. I also believe that for the N4, Rictofen succeeds in influencing the N4 first, and once they get to the end at Buried and see all the dead bodies so many times, this could've subconsciously convinced them to side with Maxis at Tranzit instead of Rictofen, giving way to the jump back to Origins.

Phew, this is some complicated stuff. 

Origins is in the time loop and its closer to the start than Der Riese. I don't think you guys realize how it actually works, it doesn't follow Buried back to Origins they never say anything close to that. Origins is the start of it it doesn't follow Buried. Also the N4 die in both easter eggs, it would be stupid for them to survive after Maxis kills them by destroying the Earth even more.

[NaBrZHunter]

Well simply put, mater must be able to be created and maybe destroyed. Otherwise mater wouldn't exist. At some point there had to be nothing. 

 

You can't just say things like that so broadly when time travel is a factor.

From a Christian perspective, you are absolutely right. But from a purely scientific perspective of status quo, matter cannot be destroyed, and I'm pretty sure Treyarch wouldn't violate one of the best known laws of matter. Please note-I have no intention of coming across as smart-assed. I geuinely believe that. They seem to do a lot of research into their science fiction, the same way they do with their political and mechanical fiction. 

Technically even when there was nothing there would've been god. Just saying XD

:tips hat: lol

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

@Nightmare Voyager Hmm, I think I'm missing something here. What's the connecting tissue to Origins tying it to the time loop? And are the N4 just in a separate time loop?

[Guest]

@Nightmare Voyager Hmm, I think I'm missing something here. What's the connecting tissue to Origins tying it to the time loop? And are the N4 just in a separate time loop?

Not it is all the same loop. Every map we have gotten (not sure about Dead Ops and MotD intercepts with the loop like a smaller circle crossing a bigger circle) its all the time loop. the N4 are obviously in the same loop, evidence being it follows Moon and even has Richtofen/Maxis/ Samantha in it. Origins is the start of the loop, its the Origins people look way too far past Origins. ORIGINS as in the ORIGINS of how everything in the story started, e.g. the box, PaP, characters, Agartha, zombies and so on. It is actually the first map where the time loop is mentioned by name and not just hinted at, which is by Maxis. "The paradox must be resolved. The LOOP must be closed."-Quadrotor Maxis in Origins when he is saving Sam.Obviously nobody knew this at the time, but when Maxis makes these quotes he is not only talking about the time loop that is about to begin in zombies (well has begun but I mean is about to unfold even more) he is talking about getting to Sam so he can enact his plan to break the cycle/ time loop.

No offense guys but I thought this was all common knowledge? Do people not know that much about the time loop because I can make a simpler post about it to explain it so that Helix thingy I made can make sense.

[NaBrZHunter]

No, I think there's just some confusion in phrasing...at least for me, there was. I am aware it is all the same time loop. Whether Origins is the beginning of it, the end of it, or Buried is the end of it is up in the air, IMO. But you make good points.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

I can totally buy Origins being the beginning of the loop, it would make sense as it's where everything really starts. I just totally forgot about that quote from Maxis and was simply wanting some more concrete proof to prove the existence of the loop in Origins. I understand what you're trying to say, well to a degree anyway because you know, time travel. Mainly it's the part about the N4 that's kind of confusing.

[Guest]

Buried isn't as important as people are thinking it is lol, like theres a map after it because of the loading screen and it isn't really rich in storyline aside from ending the Agartha struggle and even then it in no way links to Origins since there isn't a canon ending to it.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

To be hones I never thought of Buried as being that important because of Origins, which really kind of made all the N4 maps pointless in my mind story wise. They really only matter in the sense of the hints they provide regarding the time loop, and maybe for the purpose of showing how the world went to hell after Moon and why it must be changed.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Kill_All_Monkeys

[Guest]

To be hones I never thought of Buries as being that important because of Origins, which really kind of made all the N4 maps pointless in my mind story wise. They really only matter in the sense of the hints they provide regarding the time loop, and maybe for the purpose of showing how the world went to hell after Moon and why it must be changed.

Thats exactly how I have always seen them. It doesn't make sense for them to have story significance linking to Origins really, thats just how people who don't have an as clear view on the time loop view it. E.g. they think Maxis goes back in time to fix everything.

[NaBrZHunter]

To be hones I never thought of Buries as being that important because of Origins, which really kind of made all the N4 maps pointless in my mind story wise. They really only matter in the sense of the hints they provide regarding the time loop, and maybe for the purpose of showing how the world went to hell after Moon and why it must be changed.

 

Thats exactly how I have always seen them. It doesn't make sense for them to have story significance linking to Origins really, thats just how people who don't have an as clear view on the time loop view it. E.g. they think Maxis goes back in time to fix everything.

Y'know, when I first heard the theory that he reversed time, I was very opposed. Since then, I have somewhat changed my mind. I think you have changed my mind again. What I really wanna know is, what, like Weasel killing his fellows in MotD, is the catalyst for the original story?

[Guest]

I don't know what you mean by that. Weasel killing the others and surviving changed the outcome for him so he survived and broke the cycle. Whereas before it would have been the Weasel dying and then eventually the others.

 

In the regular story the loop is going around in a really complicated way. The fact it is with standing all of these paradoxes without breaking shows its a really big, complex and strong loop that paradoxes seem to somehow support. Thats why that helix idea I had contained all that weird stuff like timelines intertwining. Anyways this means that killing Richtofen was nothing because the loop was already in motion even before Origins. No clue where it ends but the main quest in BO3 I assume is trying to change the outcome. The question that really needs to be asked is what event needs to be changed to break the cycle, Richtofen obviously was a spanner in the plans of breaking it so its not somewhere from the past. To be honest there could be any map where they change some sort of outcome on a large scale, but I am betting Paris because that was meant to be at the end of BO and was meant to be the last zombies map ever, before Moon. But thats not much proof, just conjecture. 

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

Honestly I'm just glad that the O4 is back, though I wouldn't be opposed to Treyarch throwing in a few more jokes for them as their Origins versions were pretty serious the whole time. I've said before that I would totally love to see a Paris map and I still stand by that, and it's certainly quite possible that's when we'll see the NO4 again after The Giant, assuming there is a different crew we follow through most of BO3.

[Guest]

Honestly I'm just glad that the O4 is back, though I wouldn't be opposed to Treyarch throwing in a few more jokes for them as their Origins versions were pretty serious the whole time. I've said before that I would totally love to see a Paris map and I still stand by that, and it's certainly quite possible that's when we'll see the NO4 again after The Giant, assuming there is a different crew we follow through most of BO3.

I think the Giant is gonna show them evolving more into their older selves in some way. But I am really hoping that they end up waking up the O3 and we follow them for most of BO3. We need a change like that really.