One week later with Shadows of Evil

[MegaAfroMan]

Greetings CoDz! A little over one week ago we got our first plays in of Black Ops 3, and boy were we excited. It had been an extra year longer in waiting than normal and the map director was confirmed to be the same as the mind behind Origins and Mob of the Dead, which in my opinion are the best playing map and the best feeling map respectively.

 

Now one week later, with the Easter Egg believed to have been completed (finally) and most of the little things now surfacing I'd like to share how I feel about the map, and I'd love to hear how you guys feel yourselves.

 

I'll break this down into a few sections starting with the Easter Egg itself. I very much enjoy the feel to it, and the implied connections to our main storyline, and I think it starts off really well. But then suddenly it gets pretty quiet after you unlock pack a punch, which is rather disappointing.

 

If you never notice the swords, you might not even proceed from this point, and if you do, well the final step is purely trial and error. It seems like there is really is no rhyme or reason for what they make us do nor is any good explanation given for all the weird quirks around the map present at and after that point.

 

The final reward is a short cutscene, which although the "I don't have time to explain" line is one of the most annoying things to be on the receiving end of, I actually think it is okay here, because the reason why Ricky needs the key is implied with the whole damage to dimensions and having a universe to set right and whatnot.

 

It is stupid that there is no ingame reward of value, it is stupid that the last step and only the last step requires 4 players. All in all I was rather underwhelmed too when it was finally discovere dthat the only step people were stuck on was the last one. 

 

I'd also like to second that killing zombies for EE steps is a little dry and it only really worked on Origins because that map was full of wide open spaces. With staminup you could survive almost anywhere as long as you didn't have the full brunt of the zombies on you.

 

All in all that EE was underwhelming. 

 

The little features as far as I know are: cosmetic masks, swords and upgrading them (which is forced for the EE), and the currently unknown upgrade method for the buildable wondergun. Oh and donut mines.

 

Unlocking Packapunch is a bitch. It's not hard persay, but it is honestly very annoying. It is better than Mob, in my opinion which had you rebuild the plan all the damn time, but the only still takes too much effort early game which slows down the action.

 

I think they really tried to make it like the Origins Generators, but forcing players to have to unlock ANYTHING in an 'alternate form' which is only available a limited number of uses per round is stupid in my opinion. 

 

It slows down the game play. The generators in origins were not a problem because you didn't have to enter 'power the generator forme' which you can only do once per round...

 

Okay. Now to talk about the little things briefly. The swords, are cool enough but they aren't as amazing as the hells retriever/redeemer. The upgraded sword is okay and when you let it do its own thing it can be used without dooming yourself but the process to get that upgraded or even just to get the swords is so tough if you don't plan your game around it from the beginning that it isn't really worth it.

 

The masks, what is the point? The donut mine is cute, I have no complaints. The buildable wondergun, I think they should hotfix the packapunch glitch and just let it be packapunched normally. I don't really want to have to deal with some short trail probably involving killing zombies just to upgrade it. 

In other news, what is up with the eye color change in the Margwa? Why does the train have a hitbox? What are those blinking eyes stuck to billboards that you can shoot? Why are there grapple points in pack a punch? Why is there that completely unnecessary grapple in the junction? 

 

Maybe there is more to see, but they really haven't given us any logical paths to follow.

 

Alright so the map. I love the atmosphere. I think it feels great. The music is downright sexy. The visuals are a great mix of colors. However looking good doesn't always equal playing good. I loved the vibe of Mob, but it was a tough map to survive on and I'm getting a similar feel here. This is a fair bit mor spacious but not by much. I've been spoiled by origins, which besides the drab color scheme was a rich map with content and space to survive in without it being too spacious like TranZit or any of the Exo maps.

 

This map is tough, and in my opinion it is just a little tough for the tasks they want you to complete. Because of the limited uses per round of beast mode, and the tight spaces where most of the challenges (swords mostly) need to be completed in you have to rush and budget extremely carefully. 

I've yet to play with randoms, but something make me feel like opening Packapunch is going to be a bit of a nightmare.

 

However I like the flow of the map. It isn't impossible like Mob is when you have 3 or 4 casual players, and it has very nice weapon and perk placement. It is challenging, but still acheivable.

 

It could be better as I feel like getting the ideal first 5 rounds is too heavily emphasized, but it isn't bad.

 

All in all, I'd put this map on par with maps like Shangri-La and Mob of the Dead in terms of my personal rating. I spend much more time playing the Giant because it is quicker, more forgiving if your first 5 rounds don't happen perfectly, and honestly the only features that Shadows has over The Giant is Widows Wine, the sheild, and the Wonder Gun.

 

I hope they do better and go more Origins-esque myself, but that's just me. I'd be okay with seeing things around the Ascension to Moon level of complicated and map size popping up again honestly.

 

Feel free to share your thoughts, I'd like to read em.

 

Edited November 14, 2015 by MegaAfroMan

[BestOfAllTime32]

I understand the disappointment for the EE. Not a hunter at all, but if an EE is rewarding enough, I do like to do it occasionally. Like for example, in MOTD, I did most of the EE every game so I could get my spork, and the redeemer. Moon, doing the EE was incredibly rewarding, so doing it made perfect sense. I can't see myself ever doing this EE more than one time, just to get the DO challenge done. 

 

That said, I think the map is fantastic. I would put it on a similar level to Origins, and MOTD, which are both top 5 maps imo. I love the vibe of the city, and it has the best music in the series imo. Hell I even think the Margwa as a boss is a perfect mix of a threat and docile until messed with. They do spawn too frequently though.

 

The increased spawn rate is perfect, although they could tone down the triple hitters. I think sliding is so much better than diving ever was, reloading while sprinting is a great addition too. The gobblegums have been a welcomed change to the perma perks system.

 

Just like in Origins though, I feel forced to do the EE steps every game out. I really hated having to do the staffs in Origins, just like opening PAP is a pain in the ass in SOE. I don't mind doing something for PAP, but why does it have to take me 4 rounds to do?

 

In a list, I would go COTD, MOTD, Verruckt, SOE, Origins. 

[Ragdo11706]

I still want to know what the hell is the floating book for when we activate the Keepers.

 

Will someone please the next time they complete the Quest. Run up in Neros Lair for me & see if the book is still there floating or not?!?!

[Irish Hybrid]

I actually enjoyed doing the easter egg with my friends, however I was disappointed with the lack of a reward for completing it. I wish it were like the moon ee, where everyone permanently earns all eight perks for the remainder of the game. As for the swords, I think it is a good concept, but i'd prefer the Hell's Retriever/Redeemer any day. 

[The Clay Bird]

I agree with 99% of what you said @MegaAfroMan the only thing i disagree with is that Mob of the Dead with randoms was tougher.  Now maybe in the first week it was while people still hadn't figured the map out, but i think that SoE is overall a tougher map to survive on for casual players than MotD (coming from my experience playing with my friends who play a decent amoung of zombies but just aren't very good) 

 

I will also say that the rounds that are Margwa + Flies + meatballs   that is doin' wayyyy too much there Mr. Blundell.  It is time to tone it back and make the "boss round" a nice break from the constant zombies.   The margwa itsself im ok with, but when you are throwing that guy in with flying critters, and huge meatballs rolling at you at 100 mph AND still the mob of the undead, its just too complicated and hard and it has taken away from the pure fun that zombies had at its peak.  

 

There has to be a way to balance this better, and making one map that can appease the casual fun-loving player in the way that Der Riese did, while also containing a massive side quest that could be completed optionally by the more hardcore players

[jimbob200521]

10 hours ago, The Clay Bird said:

I agree with 99% of what you said @MegaAfroMan the only thing i disagree with is that Mob of the Dead with randoms was tougher.  Now maybe in the first week it was while people still hadn't figured the map out, but i think that SoE is overall a tougher map to survive on for casual players than MotD (coming from my experience playing with my friends who play a decent amoung of zombies but just aren't very good) 

 

I will also say that the rounds that are Margwa + Flies + meatballs   that is doin' wayyyy too much there Mr. Blundell.  It is time to tone it back and make the "boss round" a nice break from the constant zombies.   The margwa itsself im ok with, but when you are throwing that guy in with flying critters, and huge meatballs rolling at you at 100 mph AND still the mob of the undead, its just too complicated and hard and it has taken away from the pure fun that zombies had at its peak.  

 

There has to be a way to balance this better, and making one map that can appease the casual fun-loving player in the way that Der Riese did, while also containing a massive side quest that could be completed optionally by the more hardcore players

 

THIS! This is what I've missed in Zombies for a long time (speaking from a long time lurker/zombies fan). I loved Der Riese because you didn't have to take 5 rounds to get pack a punch and complete several somewhat involved rituals. It'd be nice if you could make a map that was big, had PaP reasonably accessible, and still have the EE that the more devoted fans could get into. That's not that much to ask, is it?

 

[Chopper]

@jimbob200521  I think that's what everyone has missed mate.  It seems that the majority of people who have an issue in someway with what Treyarch did with zombies would have preferred a new DR style map, as opposed to The Giant.

[PINNAZ]

It's so much fun to play a quick 1/2 hour - hour of Der Riese & get to rounds 20-30 again. 2 hours to do so many chores in MotD, Origins, SoE just to set-up & Die is shit.

Don't get me wrong though, I think SoE is a great map & I have lots of fun, even in solo. I feel it is alot easier than Origins, just upgrading the Staffs, such a turn off.

 

But to be pretty much set-up by round 10 on the Giant is a godsend. But maybe I'm living in the past?

 

A QUICK GAME IS A GOOD GAME!!!

[The Clay Bird]

5 hours ago, Chopper said:

@jimbob200521  I think that's what everyone has missed mate.  It seems that the majority of people who have an issue in someway with what Treyarch did with zombies would have preferred a new DR style map, as opposed to The Giant.

 

Not even necessarily that simple, just something along the lines of Moon.   Moon was almost perfect, in that you could play the map effectively even if you didn't know the Easter egg existed!  Yet, the easter egg was complex and difficult enough to be rewarding and the reward significantly increased your power as well.   My only gripe was the "teamwork needed to go to pack-a-punch"  part of playing co-op, but that is the formula they need to get back to to make another universally loved map.

[NaBrZHunter]

2 hours ago, The Clay Bird said:

Not even necessarily that simple, just something along the lines of Moon.   Moon was almost perfect, in that you could play the map effectively even if you didn't know the Easter egg existed!  Yet, the easter egg was complex and difficult enough to be rewarding and the reward significantly increased your power as well.   My only gripe was the "teamwork needed to go to pack-a-punch"  part of playing co-op, but that is the formula they need to get back to to make another universally loved map.

This is so true. I miss those maps. Those were the kinds that gave birth to this community! Everything wasn't a dead giveaway that there was a quest on the map. If you wanted it, you found it. If you didn't, it didn't matter one way or the other. If you didn't know it was there, who cares? You could still have fun. THAT is what I LOVE about The Giant.

[Ragdo11706]

That's exactly how I feel. I think a majority of the community feel the same. The days of Moon were amazing. You could easily hop in a game and in an hour be on Round 35.

 

It's not the Rituals nor Swords "Quest" that's hard. It's more of a tedious thing that must be done every single game. The days of hopping in a game and getting to Round 35 in an hour are long gone. 

 

Now your lucky to be on Round 10 with the PaP open, and just starting on the Swords. I don't know why Treyarch decided to try and fix something, that was far from broken.

[Cheesegrater28]

Completely agree with most of you. The big problem with these new style maps is that not only is the EE forced upon you with dialogue and steps told to you, but opening PaP involves steps in the egg. You should be able to start these games and never even know the EE is there. For me, this includes turning into a beast or ghost to turn everything on or open something. That should all be part of the EE and not interfere with just playing the map. One should be able to get perks and open up the main sections of the map and PaP without getting involved in the side stuff every game. Then let beast mode open up shortcuts like the steps and hidden perks, and have the EE have a hidden activation for us to either find or ignore. Things we can ignore if we want to just sit and kill zombies. 

[MegaAfroMan]

I know I'm probably in the minority that thought that upgrading the staves in Origins was fun and less tedipus than the rituals and swords in Shadows, but I think they had it pretty close to spot on in Origins. 

 

Pack-a-punch was fairly simple to unlock with the generators, which I hold to be infinitely better than the rituals because they aren't in hidden areas only opened through a limited use alternate form.

 

I could have a pack-a-punch set up and round 20 game going on Origins with 1 ultimate staff within about 1-2 hours, which isn't ridiculously bad, it's only when you insist on doing all four staves, getting the airstrike beacon and the fists that the set up took ungodly amounts of time.

 

But yes, I do like how quick and easy The Giant is. I think Pack-a-punch, perks (at least the basic 4 and maybe two accessory perks), the base form wondergun, and the the tactical grenade should all be accessible without doing any quests.

 

Tell ya what Treyarch. If you want to hide the new perks or cameos of old perks away (PHD FLOPPER *cough*) through hidden subway stations only found through quest steps, or bury the alternate acid based form of the wonder weapon in an Easter Egg, or give us an additional tactical or special weapon througn a questline, then go for it.

 

But leave Pack-a-punch, the basic perks, and wondergun out of it so people who want a quick and easy game can have a game with no specific objectives other than survive.

[Chopper]

I never actually replied to the original topic, I agreed with pretty much all of what @MegaAfroMan said.

 

However, I've changed my mind a little bit now.

I love Shadow's of Evil.  It might end up being one of my favourite zombie maps of all time.

 

The major issues don't really affect me.  PAP just doesn't take that long in coop; well it doesn't when you really know the map inside out.

Playing coop with a good team-mate, the PAP steps take maybe 5 minutes in total.

You do them as you are playing normally.  Each actual requirement for opening the ritual area and receiving the item needed can be done in a single beast mode.  In cases where you can't do the perk and open it too your partner does one.

 

So you can be ready to PAP, in the rift with everything done on round 6 let's say, 7 to be sure.

You can then buy DT and Speed Cola, and just camp in many many areas.

 

I'll admit the swords are a little more work but again, not really too hard.  If you don't do it methodically, but just do it as is they are pretty fast too.

The only pain in the arse bit really is completing the final upgrade step, requiring 4 different rounds to actually finish.

But, let's say it takes 2 minutes at the end of a round.  That's still only 8 minutes per player, so on coop it's not too bad.

 

I love so many things about this map.  I love the colours, the zombie behaviour, the madness of the bosses mid round.  The weapons are awesome.

 

[Megaton A]

Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised by this thread. I kind of assumed that all the "hardcore" Zombies players saw SoE as the greatest thing Treyarch have ever created. But I'm seeing a lot of people that feel the same way I do. I've watched a lot of vids over the past week or so on SoE, but I haven't been able to play BO3 as much because I've been playing a lot of Fallout. When I did play, I found myself playing more of The Giant just because it was so much more simple to jump in and play a game. I didn't have to manage some transformation mode, and restart because "Whoops, I wasn't fast enough to hit that one switch with one of my transformations, so now I'm at a disadvantage. End game. Wait for scoreboard, custscenes.... just to start over, screw up again, end game... Eurgh. I'll just play the map where I can get straight to the point." Tonight I finally sat down and made a real go of SoE. Finally got the PaP unlocked, got the WW, got the sword, ran to round 34. That's pretty much me done with the map. I can't complete the EE solo so there's real no reason for me to go through all that trouble again. I got to a decent round, that's enough for me. I didn't even feel like going through the trouble of upgrading the sword since, again, I can't finish the EE so what am I working toward?

 

Don't get me wrong, the map has a lot going for it. It has great atmosphere, it looks amazing, has a decent amount of little secrets, the boss is well balanced (though shows up way too frequently as others have mentioned) and once you get set up it's rather enjoyable. It's just too damn annoying and tedious to get to that point. So unless I happen to have some friends online that want to play it, I don't see myself wanting to do much more with it. I played Origins over and over for months... because I knew it was possible to complete the EE solo. Even though I failed repeatedly, I had a goal besides running in circles for hours. SoE? No reason for a solo player to keep going through the trouble.

[The Clay Bird]

13 hours ago, MegaAfroMan said:

But yes, I do like how quick and easy The Giant is. I think Pack-a-punch, perks (at least the basic 4 and maybe two accessory perks), the base form wondergun, and the the tactical grenade should all be accessible without doing any quests.

Yes.  This this this this please Based Blundell read this.   I LOVE the easter eggs in zombies, but the EE's need to not be required to play the maps successfully

[steviewonder87]

7 hours ago, Megaton A said:

Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised by this thread. I kind of assumed that all the "hardcore" Zombies players saw SoE as the greatest thing Treyarch have ever created. But I'm seeing a lot of people that feel the same way I do. I've watched a lot of vids over the past week or so on SoE, but I haven't been able to play BO3 as much because I've been playing a lot of Fallout. When I did play, I found myself playing more of The Giant just because it was so much more simple to jump in and play a game. I didn't have to manage some transformation mode, and restart because "Whoops, I wasn't fast enough to hit that one switch with one of my transformations, so now I'm at a disadvantage. End game. Wait for scoreboard, custscenes.... just to start over, screw up again, end game... Eurgh. I'll just play the map where I can get straight to the point." Tonight I finally sat down and made a real go of SoE. Finally got the PaP unlocked, got the WW, got the sword, ran to round 34. That's pretty much me done with the map. I can't complete the EE solo so there's real no reason for me to go through all that trouble again. I got to a decent round, that's enough for me. I didn't even feel like going through the trouble of upgrading the sword since, again, I can't finish the EE so what am I working toward?

 

Don't get me wrong, the map has a lot going for it. It has great atmosphere, it looks amazing, has a decent amount of little secrets, the boss is well balanced (though shows up way too frequently as others have mentioned) and once you get set up it's rather enjoyable. It's just too damn annoying and tedious to get to that point. So unless I happen to have some friends online that want to play it, I don't see myself wanting to do much more with it. I played Origins over and over for months... because I knew it was possible to complete the EE solo. Even though I failed repeatedly, I had a goal besides running in circles for hours. SoE? No reason for a solo player to keep going through the trouble.

I agree with the first paragraph, but I'm not sure about the 2nd.

 

Sure, you could do the EE on solo on Origins, and COTD, but the others were all co-op too. The pain in the ass is making it 4 player only. Shangri La took me an eternity, never mind the ridiculous EE steps themselves, just to get 4 players who had above 100 IQs with mics that were decent players and that didn't a) run off a few seconds before the last 4 player step because they needed to have dinner and never come back wasting several hours of 3 other people's time or b) get disconnected midway through. The hardest step of the EE is actually getting the players in the first place, the rest is usually relatively straight forward! Moon had it perfect, a solo version with most of the steps and an achievement (but not the proper reward/ending), and a min of 2 players for the proper one. I can just about manage to get one other person who fulfills the EE completing requirements, but 3? Forget about it, even when you can it barely ever works out, in my experience anyway. I don't mind co-op EEs, just make them 2 player not 4 ffs! Even if that means you have to do double the work or extra steps, at least make it possible on 2 player. Come on Treyarch sort it out!

[Tac]

I'll be forthcoming when I say I'm not a very good Zombies player ( @BlindBusDrivr and @NaBrZHunter can attest), so this map is difficult for me in general.  Now, I'm a guy who doesn't mind running tighter trains and getting swiped a few times, so the narrow corridors aren't something that bother me.  However, the amount you get slowed down from being hit is immense and how quickly even one zombie can land three hits is incredible.  I won't go as far as to say it's worse than it is good, but it certainly adds a much higher level of frustration to my play.  Maybe I'll just stick to theorizing :p

[NaBrZHunter]

4 hours ago, Tac said:

I'll be forthcoming when I say I'm not a very good Zombies player ( @BlindBusDrivr and @NaBrZHunter can attest), so this map is difficult for me in general.  Now, I'm a guy who doesn't mind running tighter trains and getting swiped a few times, so the narrow corridors aren't something that bother me.  However, the amount you get slowed down from being hit is immense and how quickly even one zombie can land three hits is incredible.  I won't go as far as to say it's worse than it is good, but it certainly adds a much higher level of frustration to my play.  Maybe I'll just stick to theorizing :p

Naw, bro. The changes made took even talented vets by surprised. Just work at it-trains are our friend more than ever now. Like with the previous three games, we'll just have to adapt to the change in feel. 

 

In regards to coop 4-player gives everyone a role, and doesn't rob from two of them if two others decide to be domineering and competitive about the steps. Now if they used a player-number based mechanic for that as well, where the EE required steps be completed by specific individuals if they are in the game, that could remedy the issue. 

However, I still believe the solo reward should not be the complete coop reward. Use CotD as a model. Gotta love those EEs. 

[superstudmuffin]

To put in perspective, I play mostly random games 4 player. Saying that I play solo and also with team mates depending on time and circumstance.

i have a high round 75 die rise solo, 45 motd 4 player, 44 origins 4 player etc. I'm also an avid NML player and have basic training  . Obviously not up there with the best but can play zombies.

 

i can play a random game with 4 players on bus depot survival to round 17 with 27 revives yet can't get past round 12 on SOE. Obviously it will take time to get used to the map but something ain't right.

 

make it hard then easy is NOT zombies, make it easy then VERY hard is how zombies should be. I think 3arch has really dropped the ball on what people want or expect.

 

seriously motd was hard at first I admit, but once used to it and all set up I'd be round 30 laying prone looking at pieces of paper floating around the map with a sniper whilst zombies are chasing. Yet round 8 I was nervous as hell.

[Chopper]

42 minutes ago, superstudmuffin said:

I'm also an avid NML player and have basic training  . Obviously not up there with the best but can play zombies.

 

i can play a random game with 4 players on bus depot survival to round 17 with 27 revives yet can't get past round 12 on SOE. Obviously it will take time to get used to the map but something ain't right.

I think the key is 'it will take time to get used to the map'.

It's 'it will take time to get used to the new zombie mechanics'.

 

I believe NML is actually perfect training for Shadows.  The thing is, it's not actually more difficult to train the current zombies.  What's difficult is how much more concentration is required.  It's the fact that a single zombie behind you when you are moving backwards can be game over on round 4.  If you are on 10 or above there is no chance of escape if you back into even one.

 

NML is a little like that - when you are training and preparing to shoot, you really can't be hit.  You train with them right on your shoulder as close as possible knowing that a hit anytime near when you are preparing to shoot costs you 3 or 4 seconds.  You can't afford 3 or 4 seconds in NML; if you do that for every hoard you lose an entire hoard by around the 6 minute mark.  I've always felt that you need to develop more situational awareness in NML than normal zombies.  For 7 years though people haven't needed to have this level of awareness.  Now, even on round 8 or so you need to know that every zombie is in before shooting, and that none are behind you.

 

I find that the current zombies are easier to slide past, but each hit is 10 times more deadly than it ever was before.  No longer can you 'ride' hit markers, now you need to avoid them like the plague.

 

It's completely un newb friendly, but maybe Treyarch have decided that people have had 7 years of zombies to develop skills, this is just the expansion of those skills.

[Rissole25]

Being a fan of Final Fantasy, I think I don't really expect or hate much from any maps. I take each one as it's own entry that has it's own pros and cons.

 

So ultimately, I see my experience with BO3 Zombies as this. If I want an easy "classic" type map, where I can really play without much thought, I'll give The Giant ago. If I want something complex, thought provoking, that keeps on my guard all the time, it'll be Shadows of Evil.

I just don't see complex as bad or annoying as some people (NOT anyone here!). I just see it as a trait of the map.

 

I will say though. Shadows probably shouldn't have been the default map. I think it should've been a later DLC map, probably the 2nd one actually.

[metalzombie]

I echo those of you who are severely underwhelmed with SOE. It is a massive letdown, especially given that the previous map, Origins, was (imo) their crowning achievement; where just about everything they tried was executed perfectly. Unfortunately, they have taken a huge step back with SOE. 

 

After a week of playing it, I'm already bored of it. I think it's because you are basically forced to play the exact same way every single time, which is so different than old zombies. 

 

In my opinion, treyarch has dropped the ball yet again. They had three years to develop zombies content, and this seriously is the best they have to offer? 

 

I have loved zombies ever since nacht. There simply is no comparable wave-based zombie game like COD zombies, which is why it is so frustrating that Treyarch continues to fail to realize the full potential of zombies. They seem to be so out of touch with the zombies community, and are unable to comprehend why we love this game so much. 

In my opinion, they need to sell the rights to zombies to another company that can devote all of their resources to making fresh zombies content. The demand for it is definitely apparent. 

[steviewonder87]

5 hours ago, metalzombie said:

I echo those of you who are severely underwhelmed with SOE. It is a massive letdown, especially given that the previous map, Origins, was (imo) their crowning achievement; where just about everything they tried was executed perfectly. Unfortunately, they have taken a huge step back with SOE. 

 

After a week of playing it, I'm already bored of it. I think it's because you are basically forced to play the exact same way every single time, which is so different than old zombies. 

 

In my opinion, treyarch has dropped the ball yet again. They had three years to develop zombies content, and this seriously is the best they have to offer? 

 

I have loved zombies ever since nacht. There simply is no comparable wave-based zombie game like COD zombies, which is why it is so frustrating that Treyarch continues to fail to realize the full potential of zombies. They seem to be so out of touch with the zombies community, and are unable to comprehend why we love this game so much. 

In my opinion, they need to sell the rights to zombies to another company that can devote all of their resources to making fresh zombies content. The demand for it is definitely apparent. 

Never going to happen and I wouldn't want it to happen. There will be BO3 custom maps though, so who knows, perhaps you can make your own map and show Treyarch how it's done...

[metalzombie]

I posted a comment earlier today, and it was quoted by somebody else. Did my comment get deleted?