Apothicon and Keeper Language Revealed *Updated

[Nieno69]

Why noone Post the pic with the First line of the extended? I will Post it when I have time 

[Ragdo11706]

At least we know with the release of the Der Eisendrache Trailer, the Apothicon Language (at least) will continue.

Now if you noticed the Dragons on the wall we have to "Feed" similar to that of the Cerberus in MotD. They seemingly lead to the "Apothicon Bow" (probably not the technical name but you never know ;-). As you can see in the picture below the "Apothicon Symbol" matches that of the word "Feed". 

Hopefully this is NOT the only thing "Apothicon" related in this map. 

 

(Can't get a picture to work because my Cache Quota is at 99% but its there)

[Schrödinger]

Feed Blood

Zombie Ritual Altar? Servant

Cuneiform

A bone ?

[Ragdo11706]

@Schrödinger

The Cuneiform looks like Keeper Symbols, at least the 2 double Y looking shapes on the N,E,S,W sides of the square. 

Are there anymore references to the Apothicon Symbols. I know I heard the Keepers speaking as well, can you provide the names of the 4 "Wrath of the Ancients". I feel as if those are in fact Keeper names, which we may have seen some of in Shadows. 

If you can whenever you hear the Keeper speak, try to write down what he's saying.

Sorry it sucks not being able to join in on the fun, I envy you PS4 Players right about now.

_______

@83457

I just noticed where you were wondering how G.Q. came up with some of the Symbols that she did in a few of those posts. The short answer to that question is me, I provided her with HQ images of the PaP Stone, where she then went over them and figured out the symbols. 

Now I shall provide you with these same images.

[Tac]

On 2/3/2016 at 2:20 AM, Schrödinger said:

Zombie Ritual Altar? Servant

Zombies Ritual Servant Trap, I remember @BlindBusDrivr saying.

[Nieno69]

About the keepers language... there is one symbol in der eisendrache at the fire place under the dragon - maybe it's a hint how much Zombies it must eat - so it must be a number? Or it means "feed"... Anyone know how much it must eat and can Post a picture? 

[Ragdo11706]

1 hour ago, Nieno69 said:

About the keepers language... there is one symbol in der eisendrache at the fire place under the dragon - maybe it's a hint how much Zombies it must eat - so it must be a number? Or it means "feed"... Anyone know how much it must eat and can Post a picture? 

I believe there are a few of these particular Fireplaces, while yes they do have "Keeper" Symbols in them, I want to say they pertain to upgrading the "Fire Bow" aka. The "Kreeaho'ahm nal Ahmhogaroc"

 

[Ragdo11706]

@BlindBusDrivr

 

I'm not sure if you would like to add this to the O.P. but I figured I would go ahead and add this to the Thread, I'm pretty sure this pertains to "Keeper Language" although were not certain of the Translations as of yet, there's a distinct difference between "Apothicon" & "Keeper" Language. 

So in Shadows of Evil we acquired 4 "Reborn Swords" or "Keeper Swords" once we finally cleansed ourselves from our misdeeds. Now I'm not 100% sure on this but I feel as if the names may actually be the names of the Specific "Keeper" we Summon, in order to defeat the "Shadow Man". Until we have a better understanding of the Language itself, this is a safe bet.

The names of the "Keeper Swords" are as follows;

 

• Kreesaleet la Ahmahm

• Kreelasha lu Ahmkhaaleet

• Goahlo lu Kortahn

• Shaitahn lu Kreemahogra

_________

So after the events at Griffin Castle, where we uncover the "Wrath of the Ancients", we learn of 4 more "Keepers" or 4 New "Keeper Phrases".

Those of which are as follows;

 

• Storm Bow - Kreema'ahm la Ahmahm
• Spirit Bow - Kreeholo lu Kreemasaleet
• Earth Bow - Kreeaho'ahm nal Ahmhogaroc
• Void Bow - Kreegakaleet lu Gosata'ahm

Now I'm sure these aren't the "Technical" names, but it shouldn't be hard to distinguish the difference.

________

That's all I've got for now, as I figured out more, I'll continue to add.

_______

@83457 You may be interested in checking this out.

@Hells Warrrior Could we possibly have this Thread pinned, as I feel that it's going to be important throughout the entire DLC season, as well as to prevent the possibility of it being lost in a sea of unimportant requests?!?!

[Hells Warrrior]

Agreed, pinned.

[Ragdo11706]

Just now, Hells Warrrior said:

Agreed, pinned.

Thank you sir!

[Ragdo11706]

@JJMFP thanx for these. I made a few altercations, leaving most the O.P. intact. 

__________

Here are the corresponding apothicon symbols for each of the English words.  The symbol on the bottom of each statue are as follows:

_________

Happy Easter Egging!

_____________

1. DOOR

2. CROWN

3. STAG

4. HORN

5. GRIFFIN

6. HEART

 

Are there any reticles that say these mean anything other than the Symbol they are supposed to be representing.

If not here are 6 more symbols we have the meaning for, although these seem to be a more basic form, compared to the symbols we see in Shadows. 

 

[83457]

Edit: I'm blind. The words 'GRIFFIN' and all, match the picture on the base, not the purple symbol.

Purple symbols are apothicon syllables:

Above Horn is Oth, one version of Oth anyway.

Above Griffin is Zor. 

Above Heart is most of Mar. It's missing the 3 dots though.*

Above Crown is Ulla.

Above Stag is Nar.

Above Door is Uja.

These are all pretty much known Apothicon syllables (not full symbols/hieroglyphs, just syllables).

So name = picture on base, and purple symbol is Apothicon Syllable, not necessarily related to the name or picture.

*it's very possible that MAR didn't include dots, the dots may be 'A' and are contracted and silenced. Example: Margwa might be mar/a/gwa and maroth may be mar/a/oth with the dots representing the silenced 'A'. This definitely happens with other apothicon hieroglyphs, so could be assumed here, therefore the purple X is MAR by itself.

[DaveLo07]

I'm still convinced these are physical representations of the word, rather than a translatable language, as there are no significant correlations between the English words they translate to. If you turn the stag symbol upside down, it could easily be the top part of the head and horns. The crown symbol, if turned 90 degrees, has spikes like a crown. Horn is pretty self explanatory. Griffin looks nothing like the creature. However, Griffin station is/was on the moon. Those 2 symbols could easily represent a half moon, and a full moon.

[83457]

I'm such a derp.

For anyone else who failed to notice:

The words, like 'STAG' correspond to the picture under the glowing purple symbols, bas relief on the bases, not the purple symbols themselves.

And Dave, I don't share your opinion. No offense, i like many of your ideas and posts, but we have a decent amount of translation and i feel your idea is reaching at best. Plus, what i said in the first paragraph, i think you are also missing the actual stag, horn, door, et cetera, pictures under the purple, just like i did.

[Ragdo11706]

12 minutes ago, 83457 said:

I'm such a derp.

For anyone else who failed to notice:

The words, like 'STAG' correspond to the picture under the glowing purple symbols, bas relief on the bases, not the purple symbols themselves.

And Dave, I don't share your opinion. No offense, i like many of your ideas and posts, but we have a decent amount of translation and i feel your idea is reaching at best. Plus, what i said in the first paragraph, i think you are also missing the actual stag, horn, door, et cetera, pictures under the purple, just like i did.

Na he's not. I was under the same impression. These same symbols appear at the same Altar every time, and it's always the exact same symbol. That's what I didn't understand.

________

But I do have to agree with @DaveLo07 These symbols are a direct representation of the Meaning itself. Similar to how most of the Creature Symbols look almost like a direct representation of said creature.

Funny thing is, with the Heart Symbol, that's present in the Margwa Symbol. As we all know the Margwa Heart was a reoccurring theme within Shadows. I think the next thing to do, is see if/how any of these 6 Symbols correlate with any of the other translations we are currently aware of.

_______

These symbols also fall in the Extended Category, and aren't really that big if a deal, I don't think. They are just the basic form of of the more convoluted Symbols we were given.

I do feel as if we need more of these, as they may lead to helping us understand the Compound Symbols a little better.

[83457]

37 minutes ago, Ragdo11706 said:

Na he's not. I was under the same impression. These same symbols appear at the same Altar every time, and it's always the exact same symbol. That's what I didn't understand.

________

But I do have to agree with @DaveLo07 These symbols are a direct representation of the Meaning itself. Similar to how most of the Creature Symbols look almost like a direct representation of said creature.

Funny thing is, with the Heart Symbol, that's present in the Margwa Symbol. As we all know the Margwa Heart was a reoccurring theme within Shadows. I think the next thing to do, is see if/how any of these 6 Symbols correlate with any of the other translations we are currently aware of.

Read my 2 posts again.

In short, the name matches the bas relief on the base of the statue. It's an exact picture.

The purple symbols have no relation to the name given, obviously.

Example: under HORN is a picture of a Horn (cornucopia actually), with the apothicon syllable 'OTH' above it.

Under GRIFFIN is a griffin picture with a purple apothicon 'ZOR'. Zor is not Griffin.

The purple symbols are completely irrelevant to the word, which pertains to the base's bas relief image only.

Okay? Grok it. It's obvious once you look.

----------

To roll with your ideas (I'm a team player):

First, Dave, if we flip NAR over for Stag, Nar would be Lor. They would just use that existing symbol, not Nar.

Griffin station, for Griffin? Sure, an Earth and Moon symbol together form Zor.

Horn is close, though in apothicon, it is just as likely to face down as in Zombie/Ujoth. Edit: i feel 'Ast' from astanar (head) would be more fitting as it's on a head symbol and looks more like horns.

Ulla as crown? Meh.

Mar as heart makes zero sense. If we smoke enough, we could say MARgwa drops a heart and call it a connection...

See? I played nice, but it's really reaching. I would concede that they may have picked symbols that looked semi close to the word, but I'll need better evidence than what is above before i accept what you guys are suggesting. I feel it's too much of a stretch, given what we've already learned of Apothicon language.

/myopinionmaybewrong.

[DaveLo07]

@83457 No offense taken. Difference of opinion is not a bad thing, and I am not saying my interpretation of the symbols is correct. I did see the carvings on the statues, hence why I mentioned the griffin creature. And some of those physical represetations I described are a reach, forcing them to fit, but if you look at the original list of symbols, some are very clearly physical representations of the word ie. Parasite, points, Margwa, elemental, etc. 

If 'oth' represents horn, but also represents a large part of the word zombie, I don't see how that is translatable and I think unless anyone can start forming sentences in Apothicon, it is also a bit of a stretch and people are guessing at best. 

[83457]

I added to my last post to play along with you guys idea, but yeah, is a stretch.

I do definitely agree that there is a sampling of 'symbol looks like word'* but less evidence of 'syllable looks like word'.

*i tried to make the connection that 'Maroth' is Lil Arnie, due to the similarity. Margwa is a three (headed/mouthed/) 'eyed' beast and so is Lil Arnie. Margwa looks like it's symbol, Lil Arnie looks like Maroth (tiny legs and all), but It's still just speculation.

So we agree: it's a possibility, but likely not correct, that the apothicon syllables could stand for words (and symbolise objects) as well in some instances? 

[Ragdo11706]

@83457

@DaveLo07

________

DoD you read that long ass post, I posted before yours. Lol.

I know the carvings are on the Altar, that's the very reason I posted them, because those symbols represent those words. All 6 Symbols fall in the "Extended Apothicon Translations" as they are simply one Syllable. 

__________

Now notice below in the "Teaser" Image Treyarch released, it states,

"Extended (hints, CARVINGS, etc.)"

Given this statement alone, I think it's safe to say the Symbols presented with each "Carving" on the Knights Altar, is the Translated word. This however, does NOT particularly mean the "Apothicon Term" for each are the Syllables in which you've listed. Although I'm willing to bet, you are in fact correct on that end.

_______

Good discussion/debate, either way you look at it, but I think this seals the deal.

Remember this is a language Treyarch made up, there are no rules. 

[83457]

From BlindBusDrivr post 1. I tried to get the 3 best pics in post 50, but it was impossible to type on post 50, probably due to phone memory issues, so I'll do one at a time. But looking at post 50 is good for comparing the 3.

---------------

This excellent pic was way ahead of it's time, but we've learned more since.

I'll talk about first column, second column, third column. (C1, C2, C3).

First Column: 

Ko is actually Kor.

Ulla is 2 Neth facing each other.

Orr/uja is orr (c3) and uja (c2) first pic.

2 Gwa facing each other is Ark (c2)

Zor should have the 'eye' dot. Very similar to ash/shub. Zor is fat and tall with very little space between the 'eye'  and 'mouth', (a)sh/shub is flatter.

Mar may be the X without dots. Dots may be 'a'. Mar/a/gwa 'a' gets silenced.

Second Column:

Oth. Each of these represents Oth, forget the 'shub, ast, eo/arkna' parts.

Uja is the 3 triangles. The second pic shows Uja and 1 of the Oths.

Urg and Gua have made no sense to me which is which, horizontal or vertical, size of dots, number of dots. Sometimes is silenced: see (c3) Anneth. It is na/neth/gua (or Urg). With backwards Na.

A is often silenced. 

Third Column:

Na is almost always the second pic, the first is in Na'Orruja (Apothicon Servant) only. Reversed in Anneth.

Ash/Sh and Shub are the same. Shub if it starts a word, (a)Sh if middle or end. The A of Ash may be the dot as A (end of c2). It may be Sh and Shub.

Or is actually Lor. Facing down, it would be Nar. There is also a Nar 3 point variation.

Oth (in nethoth) is Oth and an A (c2) Neth/A/oth; A is silent/unspelled out in English.

Lorrozzeth is Lor/Oth/Neth. Oth into another syllable (consonant?) is Ozz. See also Shubozzor = Shub/Oth/Lor.

Cut off in this pic, BBD has 'N' as a filler between some syllables. This appears to be correct. So Zornarkoth from the AS player greet "feed (this AS) Zornarkoth" is likely Zor/(n)Ark/Oth, keeping to the fairly common 3 syllable word, as opposed to Zor/Na/Ark/Oth which would require 4 syllable/symbols.

Feel free to opine or correct. 

[DaveLo07]

I'm more confused than ever! I did assume that the syllables represented the carving/word so if that is not the case, I am wrong. But I don't understand why the symbols for those syllables would be used at all if that is the case. 

The main point I was trying to make, is that in my opinion, there is no way to translate the language unless the symbols are physical representations of the word. At least with what we have so far. And I have spent plenty of time looking at it myself. For example, the WW names. What does kor-maroth mean? Or Mar-Astagua? We have been given those syllables in various words, yet it still cannot be deciphered. Because there is no way understand the language with the few words we have been given, and the lack of correlation between the letters, length and meaning of those words.

[Ragdo11706]

50 minutes ago, DaveLo07 said:

I'm more confused than ever! I did assume that the syllables represented the carving/word so if that is not the case, I am wrong. But I don't understand why the symbols for those syllables would be used at all if that is the case. 

The main point I was trying to make, is that in my opinion, there is no way to translate the language unless the symbols are physical representations of the word. At least with what we have so far. And I have spent plenty of time looking at it myself. For example, the WW names. What does kor-maroth mean? Or Mar-Astagua? We have been given those syllables in various words, yet it still cannot be deciphered. Because there is no way understand the language with the few words we have been given, and the lack of correlation between the letters, length and meaning of those words.

The 6 Symbols I presented earlier are in fact the Symbols for the Carvings, the English translation coincides with the Symbol. Exactly what you were thinking, nothing to be confused there.

Now as @83457 pointed out, each of those 6 Symbols when translated to/from "Apothicon" are all a 3 letter Syllable. 

I also agree that at the "Core" a majority of, if not all of the Symbols actually depict the meaning of said Symbol.

I've also stated in the past and agree, no matter how many Symbols we figure out, and no matter how many of those we can get the "Apothicon" meaning for, were still not going to be able and understand or translate it to "English" except for instances like these (6 Symbols in Der Eisendrache).

I'm really hoping once the trailer for XBone & PC releases they'll give us a "little" more insight into this language were going to be hearing for the entirety of the DLC season.

[83457]

Dave,

I think kor, lor, mar, nar is 1-4. I just made a post again on this in the T-Virus thread.

I agree, i was just afraid that some folk would run with 'Oth' means HORN, without considering that it is not that simple.

We are definitely in need of more language clues.

[83457]

31 minutes ago, Ragdo11706 said:

I've also stated in the past and agree, no matter how many Symbols we figure out, and no matter how many of those we can get the "Apothicon" meaning for, were still not going to be able and understand or translate it to "English" except for instances like these (6 Symbols in Der Eisendrache).

I want to make sure that this is clear:

In the pics above, the word Door appears above the statue base with a picture of a Door.

Above that is the Apothicon Symbol 'Uja'.

Uja does not mean Door.

Arknaoth means Door.

Ark/Na/Oth.

[Ragdo11706]

18 minutes ago, 83457 said:

I think kor, lor, mar, nar is 1-4. I just made a post on this in the T-Virus thread.

I agree, i was just afraid that some folk would run with 'Oth' means HORN, without considering that is not that simple.

We are definitely in need of more language clues.

I don't remember what thread or when, but I said this before as well.

I do agree, instead of Treyarch saying A,B,C,D or 1,2,3,4 because that  would've been way too easy for everyone to figure out, they gave us;

• Kor

• Lor

• Mar

• Nar

_____________

If you watch the Opening Cinematic, it almost appears as if it's playing in Reverse. It starts out with Jessica and everything's "Red" as if PaP has been opened, then it continues, with the storms and rain getting calmer throughout, until only lighting with Nero.

A little off topic, but I agree.

________

Now to figure out the meaning of;

• Maroth

• Zorazzor

• Astagua

• Ullaqua