Apothicon Servant Quest, in relation to the Placement of, "Gateworms"! *Updated*

[83457]

I don't know what to make of the fire. It's only purple on 360, but I've seen videos of the xbone version, with the dual colors.

Also, you play without updates, so you have more glitches still in game. It could be that.

[Dmack412]

This is my first post here, but i follow these threads daily.  Ive got something id like to point out, and i have by no means cracked the WW upgrade yet. But ive been reading/writing COD script since cod 4, so i have a little knowledge here.

IDGUN_quest remove_IDGUN_from_box does not mean in any way that you have to give the weapon back and try and get it from the box. It simply means when the apothicon servant is built, the IDGUN_quest gsc is loaded, and the gun is removed from the box, until the gun is given up by whoever has it. The gun is then able to be taken by anybody else from the box. Once taken by anybody, have a guess what gsc and string are loaded? Even when the WW is upgraded, that variable will return true until the gun is lost again, putiing it back in the box.

 

[Ragdo11706]

@83457

It's purple on the Xbone as well, then it changes to dual colors. That's a possibility, I'll be on the most recent version here soon.

@Dmack412

Thanks for clearing that, I just font understand why there have been times, before receiving the "Upgrade_Ready" Quote, I'll trade it out and spend over 100k on the box and won't even see it, then the times it's landed on, nothing shows up and the Teddy Bear appears.

 

[Dmack412]

Im trying to figure that out too. Ive been testing my own thoughts, as well as everything i read. I really think its being a bit over thought though. Through various translations of matching WW names to apothicon in parts, im fairly certain that the 4 names are the 4 steps to upgrade, each step consisting of 3 tasks, the first being building the weapon, and im not quite sure the order of the rest. Ill be typing up some theories, test results, and other findings real soon. People working together is whats gonna make this upgrade come to life 

[Ragdo11706]

8 hours ago, Dmack412 said:

Im trying to figure that out too. Ive been testing my own thoughts, as well as everything i read. I really think its being a bit over thought though. Through various translations of matching WW names to apothicon in parts, im fairly certain that the 4 names are the 4 steps to upgrade, each step consisting of 3 tasks, the first being building the weapon, and im not quite sure the order of the rest. Ill be typing up some theories, test results, and other findings real soon. People working together is whats gonna make this upgrade come to life 

I agree. Check my thread "keepers" are "Key" and the "Magic Book" Theory or even Apothicon Servant & "Upgrade_Ready" Quotes. Reply to them as you see fit.

I really think the gun being taken out of the box is to start the next phase in building the second form. I would like everyone to test out this theory of mine (especially you @83457). Once you build the "Apothicon Servant" immediately replace it, never fire it, just to be sure you don't trigger the "Upgrade_Ready" Quote, then see if you get it back from the Mystery Box. The game I'm currently playing, I've spent at least 100k on the box, not once have I seen it.

I also feel this is the first time we can actually "Fail" meaning we've gotten to a point where we can no longer do whatever needs to be done, in order to achieve our goal. It is definitely being over thought, I agree. However, I think Treyarch have also done a pretty good job of "Hiding" it this time. 

I almost feel as if the name doesn't really matter, if it does than that may complicate things a little more. I feel the name may be what you have to do to advance to the next "Phase".

The important part I believe is actually the "Upgrade_Ready" Quote you receive, will determine what method you have to do in order to obtain a "Cocoon". Basically there could potentially be 3 separate ways in actually obtaining one.

Yes, we the players working together as a Community, not worrying about who's the "First" in the world to solve this, is what I think Treyarch wanted the reason they've made this so difficult. As soon as more people stop caring about being "First" and start working together or even just realizing the Upgrade actually exists. The sooner we will get it all figured out. 

Even the RealDF said himself the Coding for the "Plague Pods" are more complex and complete than the Coding for any other Easter Egg/Side Quest in Shadows of Evil, possibly even the Main Quest.

[Dr.Z]

I will eat shoe if I'm wrong however, after going though and reading all the code that has been posted, anything that has to do with the box and the WW do not appear to be correlated... I think the code is simply for putting the Idgun in the box or taking it out out. Nothing to do with the upgrading of it in my opinion.

[Ragdo11706]

9 minutes ago, Dr.Z said:

I will eat shoe if I'm wrong however, after going though and reading all the code that has been posted, anything that has to do with the box and the WW do not appear to be correlated... I think the code is simply for putting the Idgun in the box or taking it out out. Nothing to do with the upgrading of it in my opinion.

You may very well be correct, I'm not saying one way or the other. All I'm saying is that normally if I've spent 10-15k on the Mystery Box I'll get it back, then there are times where I'll spend over 100k and not see it, and if it lands on it, it'll be blank for a second and the Teddy Bear will pop up.

Try it out yourself and see if it don't happen to you. Build the "Apothicon Servant" and immediately replaced it, don't ever fire it. That may not be the only thing I'm doing, I'll have to do further testing, I know none of the Rituals were completed, nor had I picked up any of the items pertaining to them.

I can't be certain but it seems as if @Dmack412 may have been confirming this.

[mmm chocolate]

i play solo and was always annoyed when the character made the same quote twice when placing the worms down, so I figured out if you do it counter clockwise from the right side of the room (place the right one first, wall run, place the next one closest to you, then the other one on the bridge, and the last one) the quotes will always come out different.

the yellow symbols on the wall that disappears I believe have an order, thats what lead me to trying the gate worms that way.

i do it every game now because it seems odd they would duplicate quotes, if not to tell you that something is out of whack.

Edited January 27, 2016 by mmm chocolate

[Ragdo11706]

@mmm chocolate 

This, is the very reason I began even thinking the "Gateworms" had any significance. I just thought it was kind of odd, Jackie V has a specific quote while placing them where he says, "You will tell me if I'm doing this wrong, won't you." Which lead me to believe that I was indeed doing something wrong.

Have you ever paid attention to the Fire surrounding the Gateworms, while placing them, how it appears "Purple" then once you complete the PaP Ritual, they are multi colored.

[mmm chocolate]

1 minute ago, Ragdo11706 said:

@mmm chocolate 

This, is the very reason I began even thinking the "Gateworms" had any significance. I just thought it was kind of odd, Jackie V has a specific quote while placing them where he says, "You will tell me if I'm doing this wrong, won't you." Which lead me to believe that I was indeed doing something wrong.

Have you ever paid attention to the Fire surrounding the Gateworms, while placing them, how it appears "Purple" then once you complete the PaP Ritual, they are multi colored.

i'll check it out more closely next time i play, but i figured it was just an upgrade to the fire since we just created the pap. 

[Ragdo11706]

6 minutes ago, mmm chocolate said:

i'll check it out more closely next time i play, but i figured it was just an upgrade to the fire since we just created the pap. 

Yea, but is that not odd. To go from purple like that to a mixture of Red and Blue. What's really the point. Not only that but what's up with the energy beams they shoot towards the center. I don't believe that's what becomes the swirling energy we see on the inside. Although I do feel like the "Transference of Energy" is important in Shadows.

[Conzul]

So, uh, are any of you still working/interested in this, or was it solved/debunked? I only ask here because it's got the most recent date of any search results for discussing the WW upgrade or missing EE's.
I don't blame people for moving to Der Eisendrache. It's new and fun (and a little too easy IMO) but it doesn't hold me like Shadows does because I feel like all of it's EE's are easy and already discovered. Nothing pulls me back like not knowing how to upgrade a superweapon, yet knowing a method must exist.

I did a study on the Servant; multiple playthroughs and recorded lots of data in a txt file. (shoulda used excel or something :P ) Ended up discovering more about the swords that wasn't known than about the Servant. Anyway, someone let me know if interested and I'll post it here.

[Ragdo11706]

@Conzul

________

I'm still actively searching, almost on a daily basis. I do feel like all of this correlates in one way or another. 

One of the Main reasons I say this, on Last Gen, the flames once PaP has been opened stay "Purple". However as I stated in the OP on Current Gen, they turn into a mixture of "Red & Blue".

_______

One other possibility, I believe, relates to the "Noire Mode" Easter Egg. We know how to start that Side Quest, yet we've never actually figured out how to "Finish/Complete" it. Even though the Coding clearly shows, there to be a "Starting" Point & an "Ending" Point.

I feel as if this is the E.E./Side Quest that was fixed, which would more than likely result in finding one of the 3 "Cocoons" or spawning in the "Plague Pods". I also noticed the "Rift Portals" look like a night sky. 

"There it is...in Black & White".

_________

I feel to have a better understanding of what actually needs to happen, in what specific order, we need a better understanding of the "Keeper" Symbols. 

I know the sideways "W/M" means "Command". So basically we ae being Commanded to follow instructions.

[Conzul]

Ah, so it's still active. I'll post my findings. Tell me what you think, even if this is all old news to you. Would you? It's the attachment. Make sure Word Wrap is off in your reader of choice or it'll look funny.

Test Run - A.txt

 

The reason I started that in the first place is because I seriously wanted to know if the given name of your Na'orruja could be manipulated. I still don't see if that's possible, but I'm coming from behind here as I'm still wading through your other "Transit" thread which has newer posts. Go figure :P

 

Edit: K, now I'm all caught up on the T-Virus thread. Shoulda posted this over there :(
Anyway thanks for the response. I've just learned way more from you guys than I provided here, even if it is new.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Conzul
additions

[Ragdo11706]

@Conzul

______

I do know the "NOHINT" is more than likely the case here.

________

I've noticed the Center Eye (on Apothicon Servant), tends to look in certain directions, at various things.

________

I've noticed, (not sure before or after the "Upgrade_Ready" Quote) upon firing/feeding the "Apothicon Servant", you will see a mixture of "Red" along with the "Purple" when it hits an object & as it explodes.

_________

While playing as Nero & using the "Apothicon Servant", once you've "Sucked Up" 10 Elementals/Meatballs. He has a very distinct Quote he says every time.

"That was at least 10 of them...is anyone keeping count!"

________

Maybe we can combine our ideas and finally figure out this, "Unsolvable Puzzle". I do feel like this is the First time where we can actually "Fail" or progress to far.

Have you ever noticed when replacing the "Apothicon Servant" for another weapon, it seems to just disappear from the Box entirely.

___________

I have a couple other Threads you may be interested in taking a look at mainly, 

"Keepers are Key & Magic Book Theory"

& the more important one, 

"Apothicon Servant & Upgrade_Ready Quotes"

[Conzul]

Quote

While playing as Nero & using the "Apothicon Servant", once you've "Sucked Up" 10 Elementals/Meatballs. He has a very distinct Quote he says every time.

"That was at least 10 of them...is anyone keeping count!"

Yes, but he also says this sometimes while his Lil'Arnie is killing zombies.

As to your not getting the AS back from the box, I have had mixed results after trying that method. From what I can remember, however, I can ALWAYS get it back if I have triggered Upgrade_Ready with it before trading.

 

******************************

I am playing on this map almost exclusively, trying things and forming test groups. I have read some of your other thread on the upgrade_ready quotes, and must say that I firmly believe that Zornash means "altar". The combination of the leaked cheat-sheet, and the fact that the full symbol exists with context at the base of the Sword Altar.

 

"Arburgneth Zornash Zoroth Arbnamat" = "Feed Altar, Transform (?Egg/Sword?)"

 

Anyway, I very much like your find about the sequence and placement of gateworms and the water that exists in them. I think I'll do my next test runs on that, instead of manipulating the ID Gun's name directly.

At least I proved that certain characters will always get certain swords, and that the sword assignment isn't random. But that doesn't really help with the WW that I know of.

As to the cocoons, I do not believe that we will ever "spawn" them in the sense that you might think. They are more of an afterthought after we have done the stuff between Upgrade_Ready and Upgrade_Complete. That is why they have no trigger in the code. After we have done the necessary steps, we will be guided (somehow) to move to the right spots and hold-square, thus making the cocoon appear overhead (like how in DE we do the right steps for Bow upgrade, then relinquish our rebuilt arrow and feed it). Then we must either feed it or wait several eotuk for it to be ready.

 

My next tests will focus on the relevance of the water on the ritual tables, and simultaneously on the behavior of the AS near altars. Basically trying to replicate what you guys have discovered.

[Ragdo11706]

@Conzul

Sounds good to me. 

______

As far as the Altars go, remember we have quite a few on this map.

• Ritual Altars

• Sword Altar

• Beast (Fountains) Altar

• Cthuluh (Statues) Altar?!?!

_________

We still need to figure out what the "Upgrade_Ready_0" Quote means. 

"Zoroth Orota" (probably butchered that spelling)

__________

I really feel like the "Arch-Ovum" & the "Cocoons" are the same thing, they look identical. Possibly you have to have acquired the "Arch-Ovum" before you can advance the "Apothicon Servant" Quest. As long as you don't place it down & begin to break it open.

That seems like how you would go about getting the "Cocoon" to Upgrade the "Apothicon Servant".

_________

I'll find those other posts, and link them here.

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by Ragdo11706

[83457]

Welcome Conzul, to the forum!

-------------------

"At least ten of them" quote also gets generated if you simply shoot a crowd as well. His other bulk-kill saying is "no tricks, no illusions, i really just did kill a whole bunch of you".

 

[Ragdo11706]

22 minutes ago, 83457 said:

Welcome Conzul, to the forum!

-------------------

"At least ten of them" quote also gets generated if you simply shoot a crowd as well. His other bulk-kill saying is "no tricks, no illusions, i really just did kill a whole bunch of you".

 

See that game where I went to 94 while playing as Nero, I thought the same thing, when firing the "Apothicon Servant".

 I would gather all 24 Zombies, fire 1 Shot and he would either say nothing at all or some random ass comment.

However, I began keeping count of the Elementals/Meatballs and every time, without fail he would make that quote on the 10th one.

_________

I'm not saying this is anything. But stupid little shit like this should actually mean something, as opposed to a random ass quote.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Ragdo11706

[83457]

I tried to tie the 'at least 10 of them' quote to the 10's in the red circle...but it led nowhere so far.

The first time that i heard that quote, i was Nero, standing in his red circle and was like "hmmmmm".

Another is the gateworm placement, only by setting them in a specific order do i get 4 different quotes from each player (Floyd only has 3 and is silent on the last placement).

[Conzul]

Well each Gateworm has a specific altar at which it must be placed. You can see a sort of cheat-sheet for that on the wall of the PaP room before it unlocks. It tells you which district's worm must go into which altar in the PaP room.

 

Anyway rag I've read through your other threads. When I build the Servant in my test groups I have always done the rituals and PaP first, and I only ever got Upgrade_Ready 1 and 2. I've never heard 0 in my life, perhaps because I always ritualPaP it up first before looking. Probably because I refuse to believe in such an early PONR for the Servant quest. I do believe that the "Servant" glyph on the Summoning Key being lit up the whole time is significant somehow.

 

Quote

However, I began keeping count of the Elementals/Meatballs and every time, without fail he would make that quote on the 10th one.

Killing them with the Servant? That is interesting. However, my characters usually fall silent or nearly silent after having obtained a Servant, and only start getting talkative again if I box it.

When I get back later today I'll try more ado with worm placement and trying to replicate the missing red-X, then I'll move on to gymnastics with it while resurrecting keepers. I think you may be right about that, since Reborn Sword turned red after it's Keeper makeover, and since any given arbgwaoth has a red projectile, that's nearly a giveaway that Keepers have a hand in its transformation.

 

PS. You are hearing Zoroth Orota, but he's saying Zoroth Orrotha!

Orrotha being (orr)symbol from "astorr" and (oth)symbol from "astoth", etc. The "a" sound at the end is often added to the (oth) suffix when the word had an (orro) in it. Like in "Arborrotha Na'Orruja!"

[Ragdo11706]

@Conzul

Do you have any inclination at all what, "Zoroth Orrotha" means/could mean.

_________

Here's another thought, why in the F**K do the "Gateworms" actually have a "Heartbeat". Seriously, what was Treyarchs reasoning behind making them "Alive/Living".

__________

Have you ever seen the "Creature" inside the "Apothicon Egg".

_________

P.S. What is it you mean by "Gymnastics"?!?!

Edited March 1, 2016 by Ragdo11706

[83457]

I've been playing with the thermal. Flyers, and meatballs don't show up. Margwa do. I'll look around at some other stuff like worms, keepers, et cetera.

--------

Conzul, would you believe that I've never connected the image on the pap wall to the order of the worms?

I figured it out by watching, during the flag step, which keepers appeared at which worm, depending on which district's flag step was complete.

Nice, though obvious find.

--------

Zoroth orrothath is what i hear, but i don't know a symbol for the last syllable. But it could be oth, not ath.

[Conzul]

@Ragdo11706

Not more than a feeling. All 3 Upgrade_Ready cues are spoken with a vehement/imperative/directive tone. This can't be an accident; the voice actor was told to speak them that way. The fourth one, while spoken vehemently, is also somewhat victorious-sounding. Of the four total, two mention an altar (Zornash) and two mention the IDGun (Na'orruja), while only one mentions transformation (Zoroth).

As to your question, I have a strong (but unproven) feeling that orrotha means "egg". This would make sense if this is the Upgrade_Ready quote you get if you haven't touched the Sword Altar. However, this might be wrong because there is an even stronger chance that "egg" is arbnamat in Apothicon. Arbnamat is the final of the four symbols at the base of the Sword Altar. Anyway, I'm 100% positive that "Orroth" means either Sword; Egg; or Ovum. It definitely means one of those 3 things. And, "Arbnamat" definitely refers to one of those three things as well. I'm just not sure which at the moment. This needs test runs to prove/disprove which conditions will always replicate Upgrade_Ready_0. I'll do the runs unless one of you would like to.

______________________

The gateworms are more than Key-type items, of this I am sure. Also remember that the characters (on several occasions) ask if they "have to feed it". This also cannot be ignored, but has been by most in the community :P

______________________

If you are referring to the creature in the L1 Sword, then yes, it is there, but I can't make it out clearly. I have a feeling that it's Apothicon related, not Keeper. If you mean in the HUD tray, I see only a leafy thing once the Apothicon Egg is full blue.

______________________

I do not believe there is a symbol to show "otha". I think that the script says "oth" but the actor was told to speak "otha". Think of it like the differences in any language between what's spoken and it's written form of the same thing. At this juncture, more make sense while thinking of otha (suffix) as a possible spoken version of "oth" suffix, depending on the phrase structure or phonetics.

 

And by gymnastics I mean.....well.....think of the bow upgrades in Der Eisendrache. Everything that happens BETWEEN picking up the broken arrow/quest start AND when you finish and charge up the arrow in its Untercroft box......I consider all that stuff in between to be "gymnastics". Just weird shit I'd never do in a zombies playthrough unless I HAD to in order to get a cool weapon.

 

@83457

Damn dude you did it the hard way.

Much respect tho.

______________

Anyway, I'm tired out tonight, so I'll just go about seeing if I can reproduce the missing X.

That's huge, IMO, even if it isn't Servant related. It could be related, though, since if we find out more about the worms, this may lead to cocoons. Remember silk-worms and other worms are known to make cocoons. Do we have to feed it? :P

Edited March 2, 2016 by Conzul

[Conzul]

Can confirm that, as Nero, placing the worms one at a time into their correct altars in Pap counterclockwise starting w/boxer will trigger all four of Nero's reaction quotes.

Even though I performed the rituals in a different order. My mind is off the EE tonight a bit though, since in the 1.07 patch notes they said they gave Alternate Ammo Types a "balancing pass" and I need to figure out what the damage is. No pun intended.