Apothicon Servant Quest, in relation to the Placement of, "Gateworms"! *Updated*

[Conzul]

I'll try it one more time, but yeah I did all that exactly and always got all my red-x's (PS4)

[Ragdo11706]

14 minutes ago, Conzul said:

I'll try it one more time, but yeah I did all that exactly and always got all my red-x's (PS4)

Make sure to check before you start the PaP Ritual, don't know if it matters but this is also on Solo not Co-Op.

[Conzul]

Ah....check what before I do PaP?

Edit: Anyway, I tried it a third time, and nope it doesn't work. So yeah I think we can rule out the Red-X.

However, I still believe there's some merit to exploring a way to "feed" them before or after we drop them off.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Conzul

[83457]

16 hours ago, Conzul said:

Ah....check what before I do PaP?

Edit: Anyway, I tried it a third time, and nope it doesn't work. So yeah I think we can rule out the Red-X.

However, I still believe there's some merit to exploring a way to "feed" them before or after we drop them off.

The red x reappears once the pap ritual is complete. So, Ragdo meant check for the missing x before that.

I was on the same page, but I've tried so many things without a peep from the game.

Maybe cocoons can only be seen in thermal, in noire mode... (caps self).

[Ragdo11706]

@Conzul

Yea I definitely think there is more to the "Gateworms" than just activating a Ritual and picking them up.

There must be a reason why we can leave them above the Altar, they emit a bright light, and they have a "Heartbeat".

I've also noticed with the "Gateworms" in your inventory, they have that "Glowing Sparkle" effect. Similar to the way the "Golden Pods" look.

When you fire the "Apothicon Servant" if you watch when you reload, the ammo counter has the same "Glowing Sparkle".

I also find it weird how once we place an item at a Ritual Altar, it makes that weird noise like something is being built. Possibly we need to place all 4 items in the correct order, before activating the first Ritual.

 We may even need to have the "Upgrade_Ready" Quote Trigger after the items have been placed, but before a single Ritual has been activated, and maybe not holding the "Summoning Key"...

If I had to guess I would say the correct order in which everything should be done;

• Canals
• Waterfront
• Junction/Rift
• Footlight

The reason I feel this may actually be the Correct order, is based on the Checkered Flag pattern painted on the top of the buildings leading to the Footlight District, basically screaming this is where you finish.

_________

@83457

I agree, the Noire Mode may very well be the "Key" to all of this. I don't get why we can shoot down the pictures, where one leads to the "Noire Mode" while the other one we have to have a PaP weapon. Upon shooting it down, nothing even happens.

_______

P.S.  The Crystal Skulls in MotD could only been seen in "Afterlife".

Edited March 5, 2016 by Ragdo11706

[Conzul]

Yep.

I know I'll be working on stuff while a Gateworm and Servant are held for quite a few playthroughs to come.

I would actually pick up the Summoning Key, though. It already has the "Servant" glyph lit up from the beginning.

I'll report back if I find anything. TTFN

[Ragdo11706]

34 minutes ago, Conzul said:

Yep.

I know I'll be working on stuff while a Gateworm and Servant are held for quite a few playthroughs to come.

I would actually pick up the Summoning Key, though. It already has the "Servant" glyph lit up from the beginning.

I'll report back if I find anything. TTFN

Yea I pointed that out in a post somewhere, as I had noticed the same thing. 

The only reason I said that is simply based on the, "Hold (X) to pick up Summoning Key..." 

_______

I would try placing the Ritual Items, obtaining the "Apothicon Servant", triggering the "Upgrade_Ready" Quote, then activating the Rituals. 

The next thing I would imagine the "Quest" involves would be the "Apothicon Egg" and the "Gateworms". 

Nero, has a lot of quotes pertaining to, "A Giant Inter-Dimensional Egg", "Transferal of Energy". Even when placing the "Egg" in those Altars, the characters have quotes of, what am I supposed to do with this now, and it being cracked from being so heavy.

[Conzul]

Okay, check this out. Make sure you're volume is up so you can hear the voices. This is what happens at Upgrade_Ready IF YOU HAVEN'T done all the rituals.

Youtube Private Video

 

If you think about it (and I did) I believe they never imagined we'd put down a ritual item and then NOT do the ritual. And if they didn't plan for that, then they wouldn't ever expect us to? So I think we can rule out that we have to leave a ritual item on its altar and do other stuff before the ritual.

 

Additional Observations: This stack up doesn't seem to affect character dialogue concerning the Swords, or ambient combat dialogue. Which makes me think Servant cues are coded as EE/Story audio, meaning the Servant Upgrade quest might be tied strongly to the progress of the EE.

Which is more evidence that it has a PONR.

F*CK.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Conzul
clarity

[83457]

Oddly, solo game, i was beast, opened black lace, then boogied over to the Subway and zapped w'sw. As i entered the Subway, i heard an apothicon saying, while still beast. That's new to me. I couldn't make it out. 

--------

Also, I've noticed this change: if i pick up every gateworm and then open pap, then set the gateworms down, counterclockwise starting with Floyd's, the each go into the correct altar for that player. 

Sometimes i get 4 sayings with this,  sometimes they repeat. Whereas, if i put them one at a time into the altars, they never repeat phrases.

But the change is the first part. How it always was, tested a ridiculous number of times: if i went to Floyd's worm spot and held x, it would always drop Jackie's worm. If i went to Jackie's first, it would drop Floyd's worm.

That's why i began setting them one at a time to get the right worm in the right spot.

But now, it automatically drops them in the correct order if i do this. 

Does it mean something? Who knows at this point? 

[Ragdo11706]

@Conzul

I'd be willing to bet $$$ the "Apothicon Servant Quest" had a PONR, as I've been saying this all along. It's the only logical explanation as to why we haven't figured it out yet.

@83457

When you says Flloyds Gateworm Altar, you so mean Bottom Left Correct. Making Jackies Bottom Right, Neros Front left, Jessica's Front Right.

So are you saying now they finally fixed the way the "Gateworms" are placed. No longer does it go 4,1,3,2, How it had been for quite sometime now.

[83457]

I used to get random. The first time that i tried watching where they go,  i was Nero, and the first one that he set down was altar right, and it was Nero's worm that came from inventory. Doing the same things gave different results. 

[Oldmate]

Man all you guys have been doing awesome work on this front, particularly 83457 and Ragdo11706.  It's incredible to see how many variables and options you've tried, and the methodical way in which you work through this stuff.  Simply awesome!

Having said that, after lurking and reading everything you do, I'm worried you are way too deeply invested in what may or may not be 'a thing'.

Can I very respectfully suggest taking a breather for a while and enjoying the new map.  Just hook in and enjoy the gameplay again, learn all Der Eisendrache has to offer, and get back to the fundamentals: killing those pesky zombies!

[Ragdo11706]

1 hour ago, Oldmate said:

Man all you guys have been doing awesome work on this front, particularly 83457 and Ragdo11706.  It's incredible to see how many variables and options you've tried, and the methodical way in which you work through this stuff.  Simply awesome!

Having said that, after lurking and reading everything you do, I'm worried you are way too deeply invested in what may or may not be 'a thing'.

Can I very respectfully suggest taking a breather for a while and enjoying the new map.  Just hook in and enjoy the gameplay again, learn all Der Eisendrache has to offer, and get back to the fundamentals: killing those pesky zombies!

I have been enjoying D.E. I've stepped away from SoE for the moment, but not forever. I definitely believe the "Upgrade Quest" is in the game, it's just a matter of figuring out what it is were doing wrong, as I also believe this is the First "Quest" to have a PONR. Which would make sense on the reason we've yet to figure it out.

__________

Given we have the "Noire Quest" we've yet to find the ending to (going by the in-game coding "Noire_Quest_Start" "Noire_Quest_End"). I have high hopes, this is more than likely the starting point towards something bigger.

Regardless of the outcome, thanx for noticing there are still people actively trying to figure this thing out, it means a lot. Hopefully sooner rather than later something will be discovered to progress this thing just a bit. If not we may have to wait until Treyarch releases more of the "Apothicon Language" and especially "Keeper Language" Translations.

________

Just think about this for a bit, Treyarch went out of their way, to create a "Made up" Language, they plan on using throughout the entirety of the DLC Season. A Language that the "Apothicon Servant" happens to based purely on. I have faith, it's only a matter of understanding this language better, before we may actually be able to solve this thing.

[83457]

Thanks Oldmate. Have no fear, there are plenty of mindless slaughters between the 'search' games.

It's quite often some random thought that i have during a regular game that makes me check things out. 

The search can be fun. More fun than running in circles to 72, like i did the other day. I usually camp/train to 55ish and find it too tedious to go on. 

I've done my marathon games, now i play for fun and searches. 

[Conzul]

@Oldmate

It is often through obsession that discoveries are made in the first place. Why would you accuse them of being too invested?

With little or no investment, comes little or no discovery.

______________________

I agree that they should try DE. It will give them new ideas to bring back to Shadows if they chose (it did for me). But all the people who aren't "invested" just took for granted that RealDF was right and gave up. And if you give up, why are you even in this thread?

It would take more fingers than are on one hand for me to list the number of things wrong with DF's assumption.

Besides, shooting zombies is only fun for so long. The value is in the mystery, and the search.

[Conzul]

ON TOPIC:

I believe that Ready_Upgrade itself is (a) PONR notification. This would make sense because of RealDF's find, and the fact that character and story dialogue gets "un-glitched" right afterword.

________________

RealDF noticed that Ready_Upgrade did not trigger anything. That could be because Ready_Upgrade is really a marker that says, "too late!" or "you missed something, so too late!" But he assumed that the Servant quest had A > B > C linearity, or straight linearity like most of the other upgrade quests. He did not imagine that there could be multiple pre-requisites for Ready_Upgrade to set a trigger for the next step. Or, more mathematically

A > B1 && B2 > C (where A is building the Servant, C is Ready_Upgrade, and B(x) is stuff we need to do in between)

If I'm right, RealDF would never discover the next trigger because he could never know how to satisfy the pre-requisites, because he doesn't know what they are. Not all the code strings are hints laid out in black and white (pardon the pun)

________________

Also, often when I play, all character/story dialogue between A and C gets glitched out until right after C, at which point it all plays one after another like I showed in the video above. Kinda like it's a round-timed sidequest. Of course, we can slightly control the PONR by chosing to NOT fire the Servant, or by staying outside of 50 ft from the margwa (good luck with that)

 

Funny, I used to think that Ready_Upgrade meant we could start doing the next thing. Now I think that it means we're screwed unless we did the right stuff in advance.

Just imagine a (?) after it. Ready_Upgrade(?) really means "are they ready to upgrade it? no? well tough then"

[Jami San]

Overdue update, ever since the day before D.E. patch, shadowman finally resumed speaking to me when I enter a ritual area , this had gone away for a while , and now returned.

I test out the gateworm placement each time I play , and I have NEVER had ant other result than , 4,1,3,2,

regardles of where I place them, the only way for me to change this would be to place a worm before I get another...one worm at a time.

But taking your advice , I played around with placement and DID find that if placed clockwise, i get the same repeated phrase 4 time(with no exeption) , But when placed differently (lower right top left lower left top right) I get 4 seperate quotes....(with no exception) This MUST mean something.   I know you all know this already....but there it is.

[Ragdo11706]

@Conzul

_______

Thank You.

Seriously, I don't know how long I've been trying to say this exact same thing, but no-one would listen, because DF is some type of GOD or something, honestly I don't get it.

I've never once believed for a second that the "Quest" is no longer in the game, or "De-Activated". It's there, it's just a matter of figuring out what were doing wrong.

_________

I believe you have just hit the nail on the head, with your statement. The "Upgrade_Ready" Quote, is asking if we're "Ready" or "Worthy" enough to "Upgrade", thus why the "Cocoon" goes into a state of "Off".

The only question now is, what or how do we go about playing the map. I know before a recent patch, if you acquired the "Apothicon Servant" before placing the "Gateworms", would cause the Shadow Man to freeze at the PaP, making Margwa no longer spawn.

A similar thing would happen with the Audio "Glitching" out, once you upgraded the Sword, activated the "Magic Book" then activated the "Totem" it would begin to play simultaneously, similar to the video you uploaded. My question is what did you do in that video to cause the Audio to bug out like that, only to trigger once the "Upgrade_Ready" Quote played.

________

In the Original Build of the Game that I was recently playing on (8.0.0.0) you couldn't Freeze the Shadow Man like that, causing the Margwa to no longer spawn. I believe when Treyarch patched the PaP "Glitch" for the "Apothicon Servant" caused this "Glitch". 

Now that Treyarch have finally fixed this, I believe the "Apothicon Servant Upgrade Quest" is now functioning as it should.

______

* This I feel is related to the "Noire" Easter Egg

** This one I feel pertains to acquiring the "Apothicon Servant" BEFORE placing the "Gateworms". As that was a rare issue that only really ever happened in Solo, and it's a very "Specific Gun".

[shirtlesservice]

@Ragdo11706 @83457 Ohhhhhhh boy. If this goes where I think its going Shadows just got way more interesting again. How long do you guys figure before we (or someone else in the zombies community, I don't know) works it out?

Knowing what we know now about the easter egg it can't be that far off... Maybe I'm just excited... this would be a huge boon for players, especially the high round guys....

[Ragdo11706]

1 hour ago, shirtlesservice said:

@Ragdo11706 @83457 Ohhhhhhh boy. If this goes where I think its going Shadows just got way more interesting again. How long do you guys figure before we (or someone else in the zombies community, I don't know) works it out?

Knowing what we know now about the easter egg it can't be that far off... Maybe I'm just excited... this would be a huge boon for players, especially the high round guys....

I'm fairly excited, I have been for a long time, there just hasn't been enough people vested in searching, all because one person said otherwise.

I mean think about it, I believe Treyarch left that "Glitch" in the game on purpose, simply because without it, we never would've known it existed, other than the code. Where we've seen similar coding, pertaining to weapons, however we were never actually able to obtain them in any map before this.

__________

Going off what @Conzul has stated in his posts, I would suggest starting with building the "Apothicon Servant" while holding the "Gateworms". Once that's been achieved place the "Gateworms" at their Altar & open PaP. Somewhere in between I'd say to grab the "Apothicon Egg" and begin filling that with Energy.

Finally I'd say to grab an "In Plain Sight" Gobble Gum and use that to try finding something unseen. Unless transforming into the Beast will show something unseen. Noire Mode may also be a requirement, as it's right there in Black & White.

________

What are your thoughts on this, what are you thinking right now?!?!? Let's work together and show Treyarch we can work together as a "Community" and not just as One worried about being the "First" on YouTube, the main reason I believe this has yet to be solved.

[83457]

I read all that, not sure where to look anymore in game.

----

Personal mysteries: i got a loud ding from a purple Bouncing Betty (trip mine mcc upgrade), thrown down by the CP switch in Canal that i had just activated as well. 

I got a loud 'confirmation' noise, similar to the Devil-O TM upgrade, while killing keepers in the black lace with the Servant (not sure which one that i had).

-------

Community mysteries: 

Sword headshot counter does what? 

Red circles, light up after pap, act weird, show two circles in the 'instructions', like there is a second use for them. 

4 AS names. Why? Only one in play at once. 

AS is nearly impossible to get back from the box. I've never seen it come back on 360.

Noire mode: purpose? End?

2 languages that have been only extraneous so far. Why? 

------------

Recent random mind-fuck: a flyer turned red yesterday in a random pub game (1st random pubs on bo3 for me). Maybe get 20+ revives to activate the cocoons (from red flyers), because clearly you need the arbgwaoth to carry pub plebes? Most likely one of the plethora of visual glitches. 

Maybe we need max prestige, or all challenges complete before it can trigger?

[Conzul]

I would say that the only TRULY solid and working lead we have right now (credit to Rag iirc, idk) Is that the Summoning Key has several symbols on it, but the "Servant" symbol is always lit up. Even during the few moments of the PaP ritual, "Servant" is still lit up. But then you lose it, since the Shadowman steals it.

Means the road will be long and painful because in our search we must go without PaP, but once we discover it we can just get and cocoon the Servant and then PaP and then sit back and reeeelaaaaaaxxxxxx

 

Personally, I've done enough in-game testing for the moment. I am going to do my best to translate that sound-bite I obtained using Treyarch's key and the Purple Bow minigame, and then the three Upgrade_Ready quotes. If I'm right about PONR, then the fact that there are three of them could still mean they are hints about what you did wrong. Though I did hear the Keeper Boss in DE say quite clearly "Zoroth Orrotha" which is Upgrade_Ready0

I have attached the sound file here, if anyone wants to make their own stab at it. 90% of it is legible, but I need a program to slow down audio to get the last bits

Servant respawn cue.mp3

[Ragdo11706]

@83457

Have you gotten the "Upgrade_Ready" Quote then placed the "Apothicon Servant" back in the Box. In my own personal experiences, if I Box the "Apothicon Servant" before I receive the "Upgrade_Ready" I never receive it back.

If I have obtained the "Upgrade_Ready" Quote and Box the "Apothicon Servant" normally I get it back from the Box, within the first 15-20k. I've yet to test any of this with the most recent update.

_________

Regarding the "Keeper Circles" used to upgrade the "Arch-Ovum". I've noticed a few different "anomalies".

Anytime you approach a "Keeper" holding the "Arch-Ovum" but do NOT accept it, the following Round, the circles will no longer be "Lit/Glowing/Activated".

I've also noticed, either the Round Before or During an "Elemental/Parasite/Margwa" Round, the "Keeper Circles" again will be no longer "Lit/Glowing/Activated".

_______

@Conzul

I was studying why the "Symbols" on the PaP Wall light up once a Ritual has been completed, and wether or not just completing the Ritual itself caused this, or if you had to acquire the "Gateworms" as well.

I also found it interesting the 4 Symbols relating to each characters Ritual Item (regardless if the actual translation refers to them or not), surrounds the "Symbol" for "Apothicon".

______

I wanted to know the significance of why Treyarch went out of their way, to code this into the game (think of all the different things in SoE that "Glow Yellow).

What was the reasoning behind this, as you've stated the characters make reference to "Feeding" the "Gateworms", which actually have a "Heartbeat". As if they are a living organism.

_______

Another member here pointed out, during a Ritual, different "Symbols" would glow "Yellow". I was standing at the Spawn looking around, and noticed the "Summoning Key" was already Glowing. Once I was finally able to line up which symbol it was, I realized it was "Servant". That lead to my curiosity of why "Apothicon" also glows "Yellow" on the PaP wall, leading to "Apothicon Servant".

[Conzul]

@Ragdo11706

Archon/Keeper writing is always in Red.

Apothicon writing is always in Blue or Yellow, with the exception of Red if it's written in blood by a ritual altar.

This is why the Keepers (or Archons, if you will) are called "Keepers". It is their job to "keep" or hide the Apothicons and their works. For example:

1) Break open the burning red Keeper boxes with beastmode, you find hidden Apothicon statues.....

2) Break open the burning red Keeper box on Easy Street with beastmode, you find hidden Apothicon Rift stone (uncharged at the time, so just called the Summoning Key)...

3) Zap the red Keeper symbols in rift, you find hidden Apothicon sword kiosk with Apothicon writing on the base and on each sword....

etc.....very little Apothicon writing has been discovered on SoE. I imagine that's why there's so much of it on DE.

 

Edit: Do you know if all of the Gateworms have this heartbeat, and at all times? Is there a point at which any of them are missing it, or is it ever faster/slower? Can it be heard in beastmode?

Edited March 11, 2016 by Conzul

[Ragdo11706]

@Conzul

Where is the "Apothicon" writing on D.E. is it on the signs that's written over in Blood to say, "Undercroft" "Family Tomb" etc.. or is it in the "Rune Bows" Fire Circle.

______

I agree about the "Keepers". They try to "Keep" us (the characters) from completing whatever task it may be pertaining to that particular map. We were first introduced to them in "Origins". It became clear once SoE was released, they were going play a more prominent role in the conclusion to this chapter of "The Story".

________

As far as I know, all the "Gateworms" have the same "Heartbeat". I've never been able to distinguish if it ever actually changes. When they are above the Ritual Altar, you can hear it quite clearly.

Once you finally pick up one, you no longer hear the "Heartbeat" until you place it at its Altar in the PaP room. The thing I don't understand, is what is the "Blue Energy" they bein to emit towards the "Rift Stone". For some reason it screams to me "Apothicon Egg" & "Apothicon Sword".

That's a good question about the "Beast" hearing the "Heartbeat". I.I.R.C. the "Beast" can also hear this, although I'm no sure there is a difference in the Beat Pattern. This could change depending upon if you have the "Apothicon Servant" built and are holding it or  not. 

_______

Here's a thought. Why is it when we collect the parts to "Upgrade" Lil' Arnie, each part is located within a Ritual Room. Once the part has been collected, if you look at the "Corrupted" Skull on the Altar in the Burlesque, you can see them on the Skull.

Once we finally "Upgrade" Lil' Arnie, he goes from a "Yellow" color to a "Purple" similar to that of the "Apothicons". I also find it weird how the "Gateworms" appear with Arnie and Dance.

Could this be the start of something bigger.