Understanding How Zombies View Time?

[Abel!]

 

Uhh, basically this post was me explaining how zombies are connected to the aetherical realm using a bunch of bold texts and italics to get my point across, and through the Aether they can see more than one dimension at a time. Like lasers through crystal. Thought it was interesting back 2016 but now it's 2017 and I think the idea was crap. There's a debate below talking about whether Richtofen or Sam are "controlling the zombies"... 

 

 

[Guest]

Mind Amplification is shown with Richtofen in the Origins intro. Zombies can't have their minds amplified because they are not alive or have an actual mind to do so. It has to be a living being. Also the reason they are in so many universes is because they all span from a single universe. The reason they can be controlled isn't because they are specifically connected to the Aether, it is because beings there can take advantage of them as they are like puppets essentially.

[Abel!]

2 hours ago, Nightmare Voyager said:

Mind Amplification is shown with Richtofen in the Origins intro. Zombies can't have their minds amplified because they are not alive or have an actual mind to do so. It has to be a living being. Also the reason they are in so many universes is because they all span from a single universe. The reason they can be controlled isn't because they are specifically connected to the Aether, it is because beings there can take advantage of them as they are like puppets essentially.

Thanks for replying.

I didn't say the zombies were being controlled and I believe they can't be.  I just said they were connected to the Aether and with that their minds are possibly subjected to experiencing these other realms interfering as it could muzzle their perceptions of reality. I am merely introducing the idea, as it is a possibility. This would be their mind amplifying, where as the zombie could expereince out-of-body experience for small periods of time, and as soon as you know it they jump back into their minds.  It's an interesting concept to think about,as Richthofen probably experienced this in his time in the Aether but was more in control with himself.  

Could you elaborate on why it has to rely on a living subject for amplification to work? I find that as most of their brain is shut off, it still provides itself as a vessel. Remember, there are souls lurking inside those bodies shown in the Moon easter egg. Living souls mate, inside a living body

[NaBrZHunter]

I like what you did here. Good old fashioned deep thinking. 

However I must disagree on 2 points:

Zombies are controllable by the occupant of the MPD alone, because it serves as a signal amplifier....I just wrote a thread on this in Asylum. It still has to be approved, but it should be available before long. 

But comments from both Sam and Richtofen indicate the the controller not only benefits from the death of the zombie, but also uses them in undeath. 

Secondly, I must disagree on the souls part, despite what the vast majority of the community says, something which really confuses me. Scientific individuals have never referred to the matter passing into the chambers on moon or the boxes on Origins as 'souls,' but rather as energy, which is not the same. For instance, a soulless rat was killed in the vicinity of the MPD, leading to the discovery of what powers it. Takeo is actually the only one, as I recall, who calls it "souls," a he is, as we know, a 'spiritual' and superstitious individual. 

 

[Abel!]

1 hour ago, NaBrZHunter said:

I like what you did here. Good old fashioned deep thinking. 

However I must disagree on 2 points:

Zombies are controllable by the occupant of the MPD alone, because it serves as a signal amplifier...

There has never been a case in the story were the zombies can be controlled by whoever is in the Vril device. Richthofen, however was able to manipulate humans and distort their minds, but as for a Zombie... There isn't much there you can manipulate. I don't understand where people get this idea from and it never made any sense. He is definitely influential with his words - but to go as far as controlling zombies?  That would make playing Black Ops II more redundant than it already was... A common misconception. Maybe we'll get one one day.

1 hour ago, NaBrZHunter said:

But comments from both Sam and Richtofen indicate the the controller not only benefits from the death of the zombie, but also uses them in undeath. 

I honestly never heard that before. Sounds cool though. 

Quote

Secondly, I must disagree on the souls part, despite what the vast majority of the community says, something which really confuses me. Scientific individuals have never referred to the matter passing into the chambers on moon or the boxes on Origins as 'souls,' but rather as energy, which is not the same.

What scientific individuals are you talking about mate?  To be frank I thought saying 'souls' would just be more simplistic term to use... Sure,  souls, life-force, energy, orgones...  They do the same thing: git up n leave yo rank ass 

 

Quote

For instance, a soulless rat was killed in the vicinity of the MPD, leading to the discovery of what powers it. Takeo is actually the only one, as I recall, who calls it "souls," a he is, as we know, a 'spiritual' and superstitious individual. 

Yeah it was a pretty dank ass rat 

[NaBrZHunter]

43 minutes ago, Abel! said:

There has never been a case in the story were the zombies can be controlled by whoever is in the Vril device. Richthofen, however was able to manipulate humans and distort their minds, but as for a Zombie... There isn't much there you can manipulate. I don't understand where people get this idea from and it never made any sense. He is definitely influential with his words - but to go as far as controlling zombies?  That would make playing Black Ops II more redundant than it already was... A common misconception. Maybe we'll get one one day.

I honestly never heard that before. Sounds cool though. 

What scientific individuals are you talking about mate?  To be frank I thought saying 'souls' would just be more simplistic term to use... Sure,  souls, life-force, energy, orgones...  They do the same thing: git up n leave yo rank ass 

We get that idea from Moon. Visit @PINNAZ Call of Duty Zombies Library on YT and go ahead and listen through all the moon quote videos. I suggest it because I've done it. ;) Besides, c'mon man, eye color.  

Ever wonder why the zombies health increases each round? Yep. It's a thing. 

Namely, Drs. Richtofen, Schuster and Groph. And I point it out because there is a difference. Souls are the spiritual essence of a human being. Rats don't have them. However, all living beings have energy which can be harnessed as a power source. See 2001: A Space Odyssey or Intersteller. 

The thesis on the MPD was Asylum approved: 

 

 

[Abel!]

3 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

We get that idea from Moon. Visit @PINNAZ Call of Duty Zombies Library on YT and go ahead and listen through all the moon quote videos. I suggest it because I've done it. ;) Besides, c'mon man, eye color.  

Ever wonder why the zombies health increases each round? Yep. It's a thing. 

Namely, Drs. Richtofen, Schuster and Groph. And I point it out because there is a difference. Souls are the spiritual essence of a human being. Rats don't have them. However, all living beings have energy which can be harnessed as a power source. See 2001: A Space Odyssey or Intersteller. 

I've completely lost touch with your point with all of this mate... The eye colour merely suggests the occupant, that is all it suggests. We've gone pretty far off-topic from the original post and I really don't care about rats... 

[NaBrZHunter]

54 minutes ago, Abel! said:

I've completely lost touch with your point with all of this mate... The eye colour merely suggests the occupant, that is all it suggests. We've gone pretty far off-topic from the original post and I really don't care about rats... 

I'm referring to your argument that zombies cannot be controlled. And to say that the eye color changes based on the occupant, but that is the only affect really doesn't make sense. Like I said, listen to all the moon quotes, you'll find that the occupant is, in fact, the controller. 

As far as the rat, I brought that up to negate the idea that souls power the MPD, and rather that it is energy. 

So we're actually still right on topic. BTW, did you read the treatise on the MPD?

LMK what you think of the quotes...

Samantha:

 

 

Richtofen:

 

 

[Abel!]

20 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

I'm referring to your argument that zombies cannot be controlled. And to say that the eye color changes based on the occupant, but that is the only affect really doesn't make sense. Like I said, listen to all the moon quotes, you'll find that the occupant is, in fact, the controller. 

As far as the rat, I brought that up to negate the idea that souls power the MPD, and rather that it is energy. 

So we're actually still right on topic. BTW, did you read the treatise on the MPD?

LMK what you think of the quotes...

Samantha:

 

 

Richtofen:

 

 

That did nothing to tell us that the Zombies are controlled by him/her... Get those facts straightened out boi

[NaBrZHunter]

15 minutes ago, Abel! said:

That did nothing to tell us that the Zombies are controlled by him/her... Get those facts straightened out boi

Then you didn't read the post, or listen to the quotes, boi. There are no fewer than 6 quotes from Samantha reinforcing it, and @Tac @PINNAZ and @Nightmare Voyager, to name a few, can back me up on this. 

You needa come down off your high horse  and support your statements. I respect that you're theorizing, but I have provided you resources that negate your claims. Either you need to research and provide contrary evidence to rebutt my arguments or stand down. Generic responses don't help your case. And trust me, I'm a hardcore zombies researcher.

In the meantime, I suggest you play the Moon EE and listen to this quote from Richtofen:

"I CONTROL THEM ALL! I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL! But not until we finish the game."

:mic drop:

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

Then you didn't read the post, or listen to the quotes, boi. There are no fewer than 6 quotes from Samantha reinforcing it, and @Tac @PINNAZ and @Nightmare Voyager, to name a few, can back me up on this. 

You needa come down off your high horse  and support your statements. I respect that you're theorizing, but I have provided you resources that negate your claims. Either you need to research and provide contrary evidence to rebutt my arguments or stand down. Generic responses don't help your case. And trust me, I'm a hardcore zombies researcher.

In the meantime, I suggest you play the Moon EE and listen to this quote from Richtofen:

"I CONTROL THEM ALL! I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL! But not until we finish the game."

:mic drop:

 

I mean, they make so many quotes about being in control and about the idea that killing zombies gives the controller more power. You don't get ultimate power from it, but you can control the undead. That basically means certain zombies can be used to attack certain people in a certain area, which is basically "the game", the reason the rest of the population isn't going after the people in the game is because they don't have that power. They can control zombies in small groups to specifically target people for the purpose of killing and they can just let them go into flesh eater mode, waiting until they needed to be used.

[NaBrZHunter]

Just now, Nightmare Voyager said:

I mean, they make so many quotes about being in control and about the idea that killing zombies gives the controller more power. You don't get ultimate power from it, but you can control the undead. That basically means certain zombies can be used to attack certain people in a certain area, which is basically "the game", the reason the rest of the population isn't going after the people in the game is because they don't have that power. They can control zombies in small groups to specifically target people for the purpose of killing and they can just let them go into flesh eater mode, waiting until they needed to be used.

Exactly. I think WAW-BO1 illustrated that best, because there were undead only in specific locations, targeting the O4. We see in CotD that the world is in a relatively normal state, but the O4's arrival attracts Sam's attention, and the undead are unleashed at the modern Siberia Base. 

[Guest]

Just now, NaBrZHunter said:

Exactly. I think WAW-BO1 illustrated that best, because there were undead only in specific locations, targeting the O4. We see in CotD that the world is in a relatively normal state, but the O4's arrival attracts Sam's attention, and the undead are unleashed at the modern Siberia Base. 

Even Mob of the Dead and Origins show it too. Not even just Samantha. It is also shown in the Buried intro from the zombies behavior.

[Abel!]

1 hour ago, NaBrZHunter said:

Then you didn't read the post, or listen to the quotes, boi. There are no fewer than 6 quotes from Samantha reinforcing it, and @Tac @PINNAZ and @Nightmare Voyager, to name a few, can back me up on this. 

You needa come down off your high horse  and support your statements. I respect that you're theorizing, but I have provided you resources that negate your claims. Either you need to research and provide contrary evidence to rebutt my arguments or stand down. Generic responses don't help your case. And trust me, I'm a hardcore zombies researcher.

In the meantime, I suggest you play the Moon EE and listen to this quote from Richtofen:

"I CONTROL THEM ALL! I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL! But not until we finish the game."

:mic drop:

 

Sorry mate I completely forgot about your post link you added. It does seem like he is controlling them from those quotes you added. However I don't think he has full-body control over the dead. I think, whilst in the Aether, he has the power to 'motivate' a small zombie hordes to attack Players... for his own maniacal pleasures of course, much like the way he can 'motivate' people to become cannibals, like I said.  And since Zombies don't usually attack one another, maybe it only takes a few of the dead to 'motivate' in order for the rest (like sheep) of the zombies to target the same individuals.  

I think that powerful entity who really can control the zombies and bend certain things is still out there somewhere. And maybe she'll provide some answers.

[NaBrZHunter]

13 minutes ago, Abel! said:

Sorry mate I completely forgot about your post link you added. It does seem like he is controlling them from those quotes you added. However I don't think he has full-body control over the dead. I think, whilst in the Aether, he has the power to 'motivate' a small zombie hordes to attack Players... for his own maniacal pleasures of course, much like the way he can 'motivate' people to become cannibals, like I said.  And since Zombies don't usually attack one another, maybe it only takes a few of the dead to 'motivate' in order for the rest (like sheep) of the zombies to target the same individuals.  

I think that powerful entity who really can control the zombies and bend certain things is still out there somewhere. And maybe she'll provide some answers.

I appreciate you taking the time to make a structured response, and I see what you're saying. However, what is that limitation based on? Everything we have so far indicates that the undead we have encountered has all been controlled, based on the quotes. Heck, when full power is achieved by Macis, he is literally able to insert Richtofen's consciousness into a zombie repeatedly. That goes well beyond just control. 

And note that, as I discussed in the thesis, humans still have a strong free will and, though they can receive transmissions from the MPD, they are still capable of free will. Zombies, on the other hand, have no free will, and therefore, as Richtofen implied in log entry 1472, are ideal candidates for mind control. Richtofen, on the other hand, knew that the traditional methods Maxis was attempting were not going to work, and certainly not on a large scale. He certainly didn't seek to enter the MPD to provide people with drops and weapons. He wanted it so that, as he said, the world would be his play toy. 

The direct quote, and only references to an unknown entity in the history of zombies are a) the 'shadow' that Takeo refers to and the 'something far more terrible' that Samantha refers to being in the MPD. To assume that means it is capable of greater levels of mind control is, honestly, completely unfounded. 

[Abel!]

On 1/26/2016 at 11:50 PM, NaBrZHunter said:

I appreciate you taking the time to make a structured response, and I see what you're saying. However, what is that limitation based on? Everything we have so far indicates that the undead we have encountered has all been controlled, based on the quotes. Heck, when full power is achieved by Macis, he is literally able to insert Richtofen's consciousness into a zombie repeatedly. That goes well beyond just control. 

 

Just so we're on the same frequency here... When I speak of limitations, I am talking about before Richthofen/Maxis gain full power in Buried. I try not to dwell into what kind of power he potentially could gain after Buried, because there may be a case where we do see him using his 'full power' in one future map and then in an instance, we may bare the opportunity to see him lose all of his powers. You can look into it as deeply you want on what kind of power he has now, but as for his powers being to completely control the zombies during Black Ops II, still does not make sense because the zombies would most likely hinder his plans for ultimate power.  

As for what kind of power he has now, well, we can discuss all day about it but when it comes down to it, we genuinely don't know what kind of power he actually has, despite what he says. So your ideas on what he can and can't do at this juncture still remains a theory, not to say I don't believe you.  It's a shame my original post didn't peak any interest from you, I thought I'd get a good discussion out of it. Wasted words.

 

[NaBrZHunter]

3 hours ago, Abel! said:

As for what kind of power he has now, well, we can discuss all day about it but when it comes down to it, we genuinely don't know what kind of power he actually has, despite what he says. So your ideas on what he can and can't do at this juncture still remains a theory, not to say I don't believe you.  It's a shame my original post didn't peak any interest from you, I thought I'd get a good discussion out of it. Wasted words.

 

Again, you fail to prove that the known powers of the occupant of the MPD has via the MPD are "theory." I have provided numerous resources establishing undeniable evidence, which you have clearly invested no time in researching. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You will find that I am one of the most canon-dedicated active members out here and have dedicated absurd amounts of time and research into getting my facts straight. Not to say that I have this all figured out by any means and that MORE powers will not be revealed in the future; but the powers I have laid forth are confirmed and supported by blatant evidence from the game itself. 

When I write a thread including dubious facts, I open it with a disclaimer stating such. However, you may note that my thread on the MPD has no such disclaimer and, had you read the following comments, would have seen that I actually removed a detail I realized was undersupported. Therefore, your claiming that the powers that have been established is a theory is your unsupported personal opinion. No offense. I do, however, take some little offense when I invest in a detailed debate in which I provide evidence and support, but receive no concrete rebuttal, and merely patronizing dismissal. 

[Abel!]

3 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

Again, you fail to prove that the known powers of the occupant of the MPD has via the MPD are "theory." I have provided numerous resources establishing undeniable evidence, which you have clearly invested no time in researching. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You will find that I am one of the most canon-dedicated active members out here and have dedicated absurd amounts of time and research into getting my facts straight. Not to say that I have this all figured out by any means and that MORE powers will not be revealed in the future; but the powers I have laid forth are confirmed and supported by blatant evidence from the game itself. 

When I write a thread including dubious facts, I open it with a disclaimer stating such. However, you may note that my thread on the MPD has no such disclaimer and, had you read the following comments, would have seen that I actually removed a detail I realized was undersupported. Therefore, your claiming that the powers that have been established is a theory is your unsupported personal opinion. No offense. I do, however, take some little offense when I invest in a detailed debate in which I provide evidence and support, but receive no concrete rebuttal, and merely patronizing dismissal. 

Lick me

[InfestLithium]

Abel, please refrain from making such haughty comments as the one you just did. This is a friendly verbal warning.

[Ragdo11706]

On 1/25/2016 at 3:23 PM, NaBrZHunter said:

Secondly, I must disagree on the souls part, despite what the vast majority of the community says, something which really confuses me. Scientific individuals have never referred to the matter passing into the chambers on moon or the boxes on Origins as 'souls,' but rather as energy, which is not the same. For instance, a soulless rat was killed in the vicinity of the MPD, leading to the discovery of what powers it. Takeo is actually the only one, as I recall, who calls it "souls," a he is, as we know, a 'spiritual' and superstitious individual. 

 

Even in Shadows of Evil, Nero has a quote that goes something to the affect of this, "Its all about the Transferal of Energy". Not too dissimilar, if you've noticed anytime we've ever dealt with this, "Energy". It's always had the same Blue Hue color to it (colorblind don't know the exact color).

[NaBrZHunter]

22 minutes ago, Ragdo11706 said:

Even in Shadows of Evil, Nero has a quote that goes something to the affect of this, "Its all about the Transferal of Energy". Not too dissimilar, if you've noticed anytime we've ever dealt with this, "Energy". It's always had the same Blue Hue color to it (colorblind don't know the exact color).

Excellent observation! I actually had wondered if SoE was an exception, but good to see some consistency there!

[Ragdo11706]

4 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

Excellent observation! I actually had wondered if SoE was an exception, but good to see some consistency there!

Seems to be consistent to me. Even in MotD, "Afterlife" is nothing more than a form of "Energy".

[anonymous]

In Tranzit we saw that when you throw a EMP grenade, zombies become passive, and the light in their eyes will turn out fur some time.

Does that mean zombies also run on some 'electric' energy?

[NaBrZHunter]

38 minutes ago, anonymous said:

In Tranzit we saw that when you throw a EMP grenade, zombies become passive, and the light in their eyes will turn out fur some time.

Does that mean zombies also run on some 'electric' energy?

That is an excellent observation. Yes. Zombies are revitalized by 115 due to it's highly electromagnetic properties. In addition, an EMP can interrupt signal, in this case being the MPD's signal to the zombies. Remember how in the Tranzit EE, zombies had to be killed under the pylon to collect that energy. 

Also note the similarity in response the mystery box has to the EMP. The EMP interrupts the signal from the MPD, locking the controller out of his Aethereal access to that area, ergo, he can no longer 'insert' weapons or objects into that time via the portal known as the mystery box due to that disconnect. Note that the box is still there, the same way the guns you have previously purchased are still there because they have already been completely manifested and are now physical and out of the reach of the controller. However, the guns remain guns and the box remains nothing but a box. 

Hope that made sense. Again, excellent observation. Very fundamental, but not one I have really thought of.

[anonymous]

14 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

That is an excellent observation. Yes. Zombies are revitalized by 115 due to it's highly electromagnetic properties. In addition, an EMP can interrupt signal, in this case being the MPD's signal to the zombies. Remember how in the Tranzit EE, zombies had to be killed under the pylon to collect that energy. 

Also note the similarity in response the mystery box has to the EMP. The EMP interrupts the signal from the MPD, locking the controller out of his Aethereal access to that area, ergo, he can no longer 'insert' weapons or objects into that time via the portal known as the mystery box due to that disconnect. Note that the box is still there, the same way the guns you have previously purchased are still there because they have already been completely manifested and are now physical and out of the reach of the controller. However, the guns remain guns and the box remains nothing but a box. 

Hope that made sense. Again, excellent observation. Very fundamental, but not one I have really thought of.

Thanks, didn't know that story behind the box