Mule Kick Help?

[83457]

Does anyone know the exact reason that Mule Kick sometimes takes your third gun slot, and sometimes takes another instead?

I've heard that it always takes the last gun you get (bo2+3) but that isn't true, unless the Apothicon Servant breaks that rule.

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In BO1, you would always lose the third gunslot.

In BO2, and BO3, the gun that disappears obviously isn't always the third gun slot.

This has been tested and confirmed many times.

But what is the deciding factor as to which gun slot disappears?

I've clearly had it take 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, seemingly random.

Thanks.

[Ragdo11706]

5 minutes ago, 83457 said:

Does anyone know the exact reason that Mule Kick sometimes takes your third gun slot, and sometimes takes another instead?

I've heard that it always takes the last gun you get (bo2+3) but that isn't true, unless the Apothicon Servant breaks that rule.

----------

In BO1, you would always lose the third gunslot.

In BO2, and BO3, the gun that disappears obviously isn't always the third gun slot.

This has been tested and confirmed many times.

But what is the deciding factor as to which gun slot disappears?

I've clearly had it take 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, seemingly random.

Thanks.

I can't say for certain, as I don't normally run with Mule-Kick. In times that I have I've noticed, when you get downed, whatever weapon you had out is the one you would lose.

There have been other times where I would use the Apothicon Servant & Ray Gun, get Mule-Kick, than buy the Vesper off the wall. This way I know the Vesper is the extra weapon. Times when I did this and didn't keep replacing my two Primary weapons. When downed I would always lose the Vesper or whatever weapon I replaced that with. 

So I would say once you buy Mule-Kick, if you replace one of your Primary Weapons, that in return becomes the extra weapon slot.

[83457]

I worked with that theory for a while, but it isn't working out.

Often, the third gun slot injects itself between 1+2. But I'll lose the third gun slot of i go down. So, I'll have bloodhound, kn-44, then get a third gun and its after the pistol, but before the kn-44.

Sometimes when i pap, the guns switch order.

In bo2, i would replace the start pistol with the wonder weapon, to make sure that i wouldn't lose it to the mule kick glitch, but it still would take that first slot often.

In general, i avoid Mule kick, but SoE is one of the few zombies where I've found it useful.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

I'd still avoid it in shadows. 
Unless you can get permanent mule kick, I NEVER use the perk...

[83457]

40 minutes ago, Stop Mocking Me0 said:

I'd still avoid it in shadows. 
Unless you can get permanent mule kick, I NEVER use the perk...

I've always hated it. Gun slots were free in WaW... This is the first zombies that i get MK, and even then it's sporadic that i do.

But solo SoE: AS, pap gun (turned/blast furnace), then, by like r40, i get MK and ray gun for old Triplevision. Before then, i just use my pap gun on Large Marge.

(Shrug).

[Ragdo11706]

See, that's my problem with Shadows, the very reason I NEVER run with Quick Revive anymore. Jugg still takes up 1 of 4 slots, the main reason I hate "GobbleGums" allowing you to obtain more than 4 Perks, instead of a small E.E. to obtain more, internet is required for those particular GumBalls.

Now I also feel as if Stamin-Up & Double Tap 2.0 are required, try running around with good "Ol' Fisty" without Stamin-Up. You'll be breathing harder than Maggie in 2 Seconds. I would normally use Widows Wine as my final Perk, but as of late I find myself using Speed Cola instead.

_____

I'm not sure about the Mule-Kick glitch maybe one of our Architects can explain it a little better....

@steviewonder87

@HitmanVere

Do you guys know what factor plays in determining what gun is lost when downed?!?!

[HitmanVere]

8 minutes ago, Ragdo11706 said:

See, that's my problem with Shadows, the very reason I NEVER run with Quick Revive anymore. Jugg still takes up 1 of 4 slots, the main reason I hate "GobbleGums" allowing you to obtain more than 4 Perks, instead of a small E.E. to obtain more, internet is required for those particular GumBalls.

Now I also feel as if Stamin-Up & Double Tap 2.0 are required, try running around with good "Ol' Fisty" without Stamin-Up. You'll be breathing harder than Maggie in 2 Seconds. I would normally use Widows Wine as my final Perk, but as of late I find myself using Speed Cola instead.

_____

I'm not sure about the Mule-Kick glitch maybe one of our Architects can explain it a little better....

@steviewonder87

@HitmanVere

Do you guys know what factor plays in determining what gun is lost when downed?!?!

There are quite few methods on Mule Kick. One that is most used is just making inventory size 3 and when downed, make size 2 and remove third gun. This can be random, but thinking about it now, maybe first gun is the one you are holding, second and third are the other 2. Did you take into consideration what gun you were holding at the time?

[83457]

1 hour ago, HitmanVere said:

There are quite few methods on Mule Kick. One that is most used is just making inventory size 3 and when downed, make size 2 and remove third gun. This can be random, but thinking about it now, maybe first gun is the one you are holding, second and third are the other 2. Did you take into consideration what gun you were holding at the time?

Yes. Very carefully. That's why I'm asking, because i haven't figured it out yet, and I'm very obsessive about watching these things.

That being said, i just haven't used MK enough to suss out what is causing this weapon-slot-swap.

I can't be sure that I've lost slot 1 in BO3, but in BO2, it was fairly common: i would replace the start pistol with Wonder Weapon, and sometimes lose that slot, which should never happen, but frequently did.

BO3, watching carefully which slot is which, i sometimes lose slot 2 in lieu of 3. I've had AS, Big gun with alternate ammo, then i would get an smg/wall gun (pap, but no alternate ammo) for slot 3. When i went down, slot 2 was gone.

It would be annoying to play, just to test this, so i hoped someone had sussed it out already.

Thanks. :)

[steviewonder87]

On 31/01/2016 at 9:05 PM, Ragdo11706 said:

See, that's my problem with Shadows, the very reason I NEVER run with Quick Revive anymore. Jugg still takes up 1 of 4 slots, the main reason I hate "GobbleGums" allowing you to obtain more than 4 Perks, instead of a small E.E. to obtain more, internet is required for those particular GumBalls.

Now I also feel as if Stamin-Up & Double Tap 2.0 are required, try running around with good "Ol' Fisty" without Stamin-Up. You'll be breathing harder than Maggie in 2 Seconds. I would normally use Widows Wine as my final Perk, but as of late I find myself using Speed Cola instead.

_____

I'm not sure about the Mule-Kick glitch maybe one of our Architects can explain it a little better....

@steviewonder87

@HitmanVere

Do you guys know what factor plays in determining what gun is lost when downed?!?!

In WAW at least, the guns that you lose are taken by the order they are 'precached' in the scripts. So guns that are placed 'higher' up take priority. So the effect is it often feels like you are losing the 'wrong' gun. Not sure if they changed this logic for BO1/2, but I know I've lost the 'wrong' gun in BO3 before so I'd guess not.

As the starting pistol is usually precached first, you tend to keep hold of it when you lose your MK gun, this would also explain the scenario @83457 described above about the Wonder Weapon.

Edited February 2, 2016 by steviewonder87

[83457]

2 hours ago, steviewonder87 said:

In WAW at least, the guns that you lose are taken by the order they are 'precached' in the scripts. So guns that are placed 'higher' up take priority. So the effect is it often feels like you are losing the 'wrong' gun. Not sure if they changed this logic for BO1/2, but I know I've lost the 'wrong' gun in BO3 before so I'd guess not.

As the starting pistol is usually precached first, you tend to keep hold of it when you lose your MK gun, this would also explain the scenario @83457 described above about the Wonder Weapon.

Do you mean BO1, not WaW?

WaW didn't have mule kick, but you could get multiple guns in every map. But you do not lose any gun slots when you go down in WaW.

I'm not sure i understand what you are actually saying either: guns that are placed higher up take priority(?).

What does higher up in precache mean?

It should just take that third gun slot, regardless of what gun you've traded it for or if you never traded it at all.

But if your saying that the game stacked the gun slots depending on how they are in the scripts, how would us players know which guns are higher in the script? And why do that so the wrong gun slot gets lost?

[steviewonder87]

1 hour ago, 83457 said:

Do you mean BO1, not WaW?

WaW didn't have mule kick, but you could get multiple guns in every map. But you do not lose any gun slots when you go down in WaW.

I'm not sure i understand what you are actually saying either: guns that are placed higher up take priority(?).

What does higher up in precache mean?

It should just take that third gun slot, regardless of what gun you've traded it for or if you never traded it at all.

But if your saying that the game stacked the gun slots depending on how they are in the scripts, how would us players know which guns are higher in the script? And why do that so the wrong gun slot gets lost?

Lol I know what's in and not in WAW I've been modding it for nearly 2 years. I mean WAW but since the script is taken from BO1 it's the same thing basically. Mule Kick is hardly a difficult thing to port into WAW, it's just a 3rd inventory slot. Just like Staminup is 2 dvars, the engine in WAW and BO1 ZM is pretty much identical bar a couple missing functions and built in akimbo/D2P and slightly nicer lighting and whatnot. Anywho, the guns in a map are listed in a.gsc file and the order in which they are precached (read listed) defines their 'priority' when the engine decides which gun should be lost when downed with MK. For example, this is a snippet of my map's .gsc -

    add_zombie_weapon( "weevil_zm",                                &"ZOMBIE_WEEVIL_1000",                  1000,    "",                0 );
    add_zombie_weapon( "weevil_zm_upgraded",               &"ZOMBIE_WEEVIL_1000",                  1000,    "",                0 );
    add_zombie_weapon( "drakon_zm",                               &"ZOMBIE_DRAKON_1000",                1000,    "",                0 );
    add_zombie_weapon( "drakon_zm_upgraded",              &"ZOMBIE_DRAKON_1000",               1000,    "",                 0 );
    add_zombie_weapon( "xr2_zm",                                     &"ZOMBIE_XR2_1000",                        1000,    "",                 0 );
    add_zombie_weapon( "xr2_zm_upgraded",                    &"ZOMBIE_XR2_1000",                        1000,    "",                 0 );

In this scenario, if I had these 3 guns with MK and I went down, the XR2 would be taken first, regardless of whether it was in my first, second, or third gun slot, as it is 'below' the other 2 in the script. The Weevil would be the last one to be taken. Normally the starting pistol is the very first gun in this list so it is always taken last.

I'm almost positive that BO1/2/3 follow this same logic.

Edited February 2, 2016 by steviewonder87

[83457]

Thank you for clarifying that. Most appreciated. So, i guess i did understand what you said, but not why they would do that.

Edit: In this example; i have MK, i replace my start pistol in bo2 with the Petrifier.

I then go down, and lose slot 1, the petrifier.

That's really annoying. I would think they would have put the Petrifier at the top of the precached list.

Even better: just make the gun in the third slot (and the third slot) go away...

So, since I've never lost the Apothicon Servant, in slot 1, or 2, according to what you are saying, AS is high on the Precached list, and theoretically shouldn't be lost even if i put it in slot 3, correct?

Edited February 2, 2016 by 83457

[steviewonder87]

5 hours ago, 83457 said:

Thank you for clarifying that. Most appreciated. So, i guess i did understand what you said, but not why they would do that.

Edit: In this example; i have MK, i replace my start pistol in bo2 with the Petrifier.

I then go down, and lose slot 1, the petrifier.

That's really annoying. I would think they would have put the Petrifier at the top of the precached list.

Even better: just make the gun in the third slot (and the third slot) go away...

So, since I've never lost the Apothicon Servant, in slot 1, or 2, according to what you are saying, AS is high on the Precached list, and theoretically shouldn't be lost even if i put it in slot 3, correct?

Correct. Assuming BO3 is the same, which I presume it is since I know I have lost guns that were not in my '3rd slot' several times. My friend attempted to rescript it (in WAW) so that it only takes your '3rd' weapon and I think he managed to, but it wasn't that easy and I think he had to alter a lot of other things to get it working. IDK why 3arc haven't done something like this but I'd assume it's just laziness as that is the policy they seem to take on a lot of things..

Edited February 2, 2016 by steviewonder87

[83457]

Thanks Stevie. Appreciated again.

I guess you modded Mule Kick into WaW, that's what threw me off with your first statement. 

On 360, it's so easy to do multiple guns in every map without MK that i couldn't grasp that you modded it in.

That's like modding in a perk to clone zombies in soe...

Heh.

Edited February 3, 2016 by 83457
Perk

[steviewonder87]

2 hours ago, 83457 said:

Thanks Stevie. Appreciated again.

I guess you modded Mule Kick into WaW, that's what threw me off with your first statement. 

On 360, it's so easy to do multiple guns in every map without MK that i couldn't grasp that you modded it in.

That's like modding in a perk to clone zombies in soe...

Heh.

The multiple gun glitch on WAW was patched years ago on PC I think, in any case it doesn't exist on custom maps unless the mapper screwed up something.

Also I've been told that if a gun has it's own script (i.e. most wonder weapons) it's possible that it's precached before the weapons in the .gsc I showed you above, and as such would take priority (so less chance of losing it).

Edited February 3, 2016 by steviewonder87

[83457]

Thanks again for knowledge. That would explain why one would possibly mod in MK.

I checked recently, you can still get multiple guns on every WaW console map. Though NDU isn't particularly easy to do, solo or mp. Solo varies for each map, but with 2 or more players, you just do the BB/?Box revive trick for 3 extra guns/gunslots each time.

I remember losing the first slot WW in Die Rise and Buried frequently, i don't recall how often it happened on other maps, but i assume it's the same issue through all of BO2. Obviously TranZit didn't have that issue, at least as far as the WW was concerned.

Edited February 3, 2016 by 83457

[JJMFP]

The way I have been playing for years since the first appearance of MK was this:

Starting pistol- First gun slot.

When I buy a wall gun off the wall- Second gun slot(you can switch from slot one to slot two).

Buy Mule Kick- That allows you to have a third gun slot.

Buy another gun- that is put into said gun slot. 

By remembering which slot what is in I then hit the box for the guns that I want in each respective slot.  I NEVER had a problem with what 83457 is speaking about until last night with Der Eisendrache.  I had a Dingo in my second slot and purchased the HVK for my first slot.  Bought MK and put my Bow in slot three.  When I went down, I retained my bow and HVK and lost my Dingo :(

This never used to happen that I had noticed and I think it might have something to do with these new Wonder Weapons.

So, there is some validity to this problem and hope they fix it soon.  I do not like not knowing what gun I am going to lose when I go down.  Really kinks the game for me from that point on.