Can we trust the Keepers?

[Altymcalty]

Ever since moon, we've been aware of an external, sinister force that has been influencing the timeline. There's been many theories as to what this force is, with some speculating that we're dealing with aliens, an advanced civilisation that live underground, or even satan himself. In Shadows of Evil, we were introduced to the Apothicon, a species of interdimensional beings, but they were fended off with the help of the keepers, a mysterious group who seem to be working to keep the dimensions intact. However, the Keepers appear to be members of the Apothicon species, and some new evidence in Der Eisendrache raises some questions about the motives of the Keepers.

Der Eisendrache has allowed us to establish something very important; the Keepers appear to be responsible for the creation of the M.P.D. This is suggested, if not outright confirmed, by the M.P.D. looking structure present in Der Eisendrache surrounded by Keeper statues, and the Vril Rod shaped slot present on the tomb in the next room. (For those of you who don't know, the Vril rod was used to open the M.P.D. in moon. The research into the Keepers being conducted by group 935 also heavily suggests a link between the Keepers and the M.P.D.

Considering that the Keepers appear to have been responsible for the device which gave rise to the zombies, it's time to start asking questions about the motives of the Keepers. Yes, they saved Earth from the Apothicon, but the zombies storyline is ridden with betrayal. Can we call the Keepers our allies? Only time will tell....

[Tac]

The way I see it, the Keepers are fraction of the Vril-ya. There are good factions and bad factions of the Vril-ya, with stories and lore for each, so I've always taken the Keepers as a good Vril-ya faction.

[Schrödinger]

There are too many strange things about them, I don't trust them more.

[Ragdo11706]

The "Keepers" I feel are the same as @Tac stated. The "Overlords" the Shadow Man spoke of is the "BAD Faction". That's the way I see it.

I believe they (The Keepers) are good simply because every time we've encountered them starting with Origins (Im assuming these were also Keepers) they've always tried to "Keep" us from completing whatever objective it is pertaining to that specific map.

[Matuzz]

They bad. Though people were rooting for Maxis after he blew up the Earth so idk.

[Ragdo11706]

19 minutes ago, Matuzz said:

They bad. Though people were rooting for Maxis after he blew up the Earth so idk.

So you think the Keepers are bad.

Then would that make the Keeper in D.E. the entity that Samantha talked about during the Moon Side Quest (Something far worse than you resides in here) the entity she was speaking of?!?!

[Matuzz]

52 minutes ago, Ragdo11706 said:

So you think the Keepers are bad.

Then would that make the Keeper in D.E. the entity that Samantha talked about during the Moon Side Quest (Something far worse than you resides in here) the entity she was speaking of?!?!

Yup, for me they are the Vril Ya creatures who poses the power to control Vril power which connects them to Aether and Agartha. We came into contact with them by Element 115 and Mpd that created link to Aether.

[Ragdo11706]

3 hours ago, Matuzz said:

Yup, for me they are the Vril Ya creatures who poses the power to control Vril power which connects them to Aether and Agartha. We came into contact with them by Element 115 and Mpd that created link to Aether.

I'll take your word for it than, as that is the question I was wondering.

[Altymcalty]

It's clear that the Keepers are a different faction of the same species as the "overlords" from SoE, but I'm still very suspicious of the Keepers at this point. In the last step of the Easter Egg Richtofen does state that the keeper has been corrupted, but I'm not convinced that the Keeper's intentions are actually "good" for humanity. The Keepers seem to have created the MPD in the first place. The Keepers seem to be the cause all of the issues in the storyline, and are all of a sudden trying to fix them? 

And are we meant to buy that they are simply "guardians of the dimensions", trying to protect us from the evils in other dimensions? I think it's much more likely that in Shadows of Evil, their goals happened to line up with ours. In Der Eisendrache I'm fairly certain we only see the corrupted Keeper, which would mean that the Keepers didn't actually help us, we just utilised some of their technology. If you remember back to origins, there was zombies with the Keeper logo that specifically tried to stop the O4 from completing their task by destroying the generators. 

[JJMFP]

Ok, so we averted the apocalypse and had two definitive factions working against each other in SOE.  Who is to say that the shadow man was bad in the first place.  I mean, that was my perception but what motives do the keepers have to help us?  Why are they such a huge part of this Easter Egg and the ones that precede it.  My guess is that we will eventually deal with them soon enough.  Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.  We are using them just as much as they are using us.  It is going to be a great year for zombies and I am anticipating that it will be epic.  Why else would I refuse to play any other Call of Duty game and stick to Black Ops 2 for years.   

[Tac]

12 hours ago, Ragdo11706 said:

So you think the Keepers are bad.

Then would that make the Keeper in D.E. the entity that Samantha talked about during the Moon Side Quest (Something far worse than you resides in here) the entity she was speaking of?!?!

11 hours ago, Matuzz said:

Yup, for me they are the Vril Ya creatures who poses the power to control Vril power which connects them to Aether and Agartha. We came into contact with them by Element 115 and Mpd that created link to Aether.

Heck no! There's no way. The entity we've always assumed was in the MPD was Lucifer/the Devil/Satan/etc, and you think we could kill the Devil that easily? Additionally, if we were facing the Devil, I feel like they would have made it much more obvious (i.e. 666, pentagram, anything stereotypical).

 

41 minutes ago, Robertos0511 said:

It's clear that the Keepers are a different faction of the same species as the "overlords" from SoE, but I'm still very suspicious of the Keepers at this point. In the last step of the Easter Egg Richtofen does state that the keeper has been corrupted, but I'm not convinced that the Keeper's intentions are actually "good" for humanity. The Keepers seem to have created the MPD in the first place. The Keepers seem to be the cause all of the issues in the storyline, and are all of a sudden trying to fix them? 

And are we meant to buy that they are simply "guardians of the dimensions", trying to protect us from the evils in other dimensions? I think it's much more likely that in Shadows of Evil, their goals happened to line up with ours. In Der Eisendrache I'm fairly certain we only see the corrupted Keeper, which would mean that the Keepers didn't actually help us, we just utilised some of their technology. If you remember back to origins, there was zombies with the Keeper logo that specifically tried to stop the O4 from completing their task by destroying the generators. 

I don't believe the Vril-ya/Keepers are inherently "good" for humanity, and I think anyone who thought that had a misconception. They are fighting good and evil forces in the Universe, and a human can be good or eviI, so I'm hesitant to say they are always 100% of the time good for us. That's not to say it's a bad thing, I mean who knows what it is. We have no clue.

[NaBrZHunter]

39 minutes ago, Tac said:

Heck no! There's no way. The entity we've always assumed was in the MPD was Lucifer/the Devil/Satan/etc, and you think we could kill the Devil that easily? Additionally, if we were facing the Devil, I feel like they would have made it much more obvious (i.e. 666, pentagram, anything stereotypical).

I always hate  to disagree with you. But I must point out the keyword here is 'assume.' Through all the darkness and even references to 'great evil,' there has never been much indicating that the devil or any such variation inhabits the MPD. I understand much of the community has come to assume this is the case, but 'great evil' can also refer to a situation or an element that brings suffering. Not to mention that the devil known as Lucifer/Satan is a deceiver, notorious for disguising himself as an angel of light and beauty, often offering wealth and pleasure on earth in return for his target's soul.

On the other hand, the Vril-Ya are still supposedly a far more intelligent race of beings, a status that certainly poses a 'far more terrible' theat to humanity than a mere mad scientist with an ego and a power trip does.

Now, while the Vril Ya known as the Keepers may be extraordinarily intelligent, I believe that they have a major flaw: they are unable to perceive individual differences, and, blindly and mindlessly dedicated to pursuing and accomplishing (or deterring) whatever it is the are assigned to do. They're almost like living computers: emotionless, but accurate, problem-solving, and methodically efficient while having excellent foresight.

It is these traits that make the Vril-Ya a truly dangerous and ominous threat to the universe. As we have seen, a single corrupted keeper can really raise hell.

And I'll go ahead and say that I believe the Shadow man was actually from a race of small white mice crossbred with spidermonkeys and a diseased fruit bat, hence his incredibly low IQ.

 

[Ragdo11706]

@Tac I personally feel the "Keepers" are "Good" or the "Lesser of Two Evils. As I've always thought, beginning with seeing them in Origins. They've always tried to prevent us from completing whatever objective it was pertaining to that specific map.

I also had the theory, while playing Origins on Solo, when they spawn to destroy the 115 Generators, only 4 spawn in. This often led me to believe that those 4 "Keepers"/"Templar" Zombies were in fact the O4/Primis. Trying to prevent us from further assisting in Maxxis plan. 

I'm sure all of that is nonsense, but at the time it seemed legit to me. I only asked that because I didn't want to say the "Keeper" was trying to help us, but somewhere along the way Dr. Groph corrupted him, leading to the final battle in Der Eisendrache, as I won't be able to play the map for another month.

[Matuzz]

In Call of the Dead we were given the Vril generator by Vril Ya trough a human sacrifice so, I don't think they have been trying to stop us every time. Sacrificing seems to be quite big part for them. Warden in the Mob of the Dead had altar that he probably used for sacrificing maybe he used the prisoners as gifts for the Vril Ya. Shadows of Evil also has altar for them as well as Shangri La. Though it could be argued that it was to worship Richtofen. And generally it seems Vril Ya are after people who have commit sins (prisoners and SoE group) as well as bringing dead back as zombies.

 

[Altymcalty]

2 hours ago, Matuzz said:

In Call of the Dead we were given the Vril generator by Vril Ya trough a human sacrifice so, I don't think they have been trying to stop us every time. Sacrificing seems to be quite big part for them. Warden in the Mob of the Dead had altar that he probably used for sacrificing maybe he used the prisoners as gifts for the Vril Ya. Shadows of Evil also has altar for them as well as Shangri La. Though it could be argued that it was to worship Richtofen. And generally it seems Vril Ya are after people who have commit sins (prisoners and SoE group) as well as bringing dead back as zombies.

 

So wait, does Vril-Ya refer to the species as a whole (Keeper faction and Apothicon "overlord" faction) or just a single faction? Because human sacrifice seems to be something that is required by the species as a whole; the Keepers seem to have left a lot of technology that requires human sacrifices (M.P.D., Vril Rod, etc). While the "overlord" faction needed the human sacrifices to be able to cross dimension. It seems that the species as a whole uses human sacrifices as a source of power. 

(Some food for thought, the Keepers are obviously interested in preserving the dimensions, but do they just seek to prevent threats coming from their dimension? Or will they protect us from threats from any dimension?)

However, I think it's a bit of a jump to assume that the Warden was sacrificing to the Vril-Ya; while it would wrap everything up nicely, there's nothing in game that points to the Vril-Ya's presence in that map. So far, there's 3 potential options for the evil force present in the map: 1. The Keepers. This seems unlikely, due to the fact that there appears to be no threat to the dimensions. 2. The "overlord" faction. I initially thought this was most likely (obviously it couldn't be stated as fact because there's no concrete evidence in MotD), but then surely if the "overlord" faction had been present, the Keepers would have followed, because of the "Overlords" presence in the MotD dimension. 

So I now theorise that it's most likely that the evil force was the third potential option: An evil force that is completely separate from both factions of the Vril-Ya. Obviously we have little information on this force, but the lack of Keepers on MotD seems to tell us one thing - that this evil force resides within our own dimension.

[Matuzz]

31 minutes ago, Robertos0511 said:

So wait, does Vril-Ya refer to the species as a whole (Keeper faction and Apothicon "overlord" faction) or just a single faction? Because human sacrifice seems to be something that is required by the species as a whole; the Keepers seem to have left a lot of technology that requires human sacrifices (M.P.D., Vril Rod, etc). While the "overlord" faction needed the human sacrifices to be able to cross dimension. It seems that the species as a whole uses human sacrifices as a source of power. 

(Some food for thought, the Keepers are obviously interested in preserving the dimensions, but do they just seek to prevent threats coming from their dimension? Or will they protect us from threats from any dimension?)

However, I think it's a bit of a jump to assume that the Warden was sacrificing to the Vril-Ya; while it would wrap everything up nicely, there's nothing in game that points to the Vril-Ya's presence in that map. So far, there's 3 potential options for the evil force present in the map: 1. The Keepers. This seems unlikely, due to the fact that there appears to be no threat to the dimensions. 2. The "overlord" faction. I initially thought this was most likely (obviously it couldn't be stated as fact because there's no concrete evidence in MotD), but then surely if the "overlord" faction had been present, the Keepers would have followed, because of the "Overlords" presence in the MotD dimension. 

So I now theorise that it's most likely that the evil force was the third potential option: An evil force that is completely separate from both factions of the Vril-Ya. Obviously we have little information on this force, but the lack of Keepers on MotD seems to tell us one thing - that this evil force resides within our own dimension.

I personally believe that there is no multiple factions out there but just the Vril Ya. They are the evil entity that Samantha describes. They are this alien race from other dimension and everything behind the zombies story as whole. They were what turned Samantha into demonic creature when she entered MPD.

If we were to make pyramid out of what we know about the Vril Ya at this point I would put Keepers in the top, that's not to say there is no god or other creature like that in the Vril Ya hierarchy that controls everything. Then comes the Shadows of Evil monsters. To me they are like animals that Vril Ya control just like zombies and hell hounds. It could be that they are from other dimension and as such are not part of actual Vril Ya race just like zombies are not actually Vril Ya but are being controlled by them or by who is in the MPD none the less.

On the bottom I would place the servants of Vril Ya. Those being the Shadow Man, Warden, George Romero etc.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

I think the "Keepers" are just that, they keep the dimensions intact. If that means helping us along the way as the O4 seek to repair  the broken timelines and dimensions themselves, then so be it. The moment we step out of line and do something to cause further damage then they'll be right there to stop us. I equate to something like the time masters from the DC universe, they are more or less a neutral party that strives only to keep time in check. Their goal is not to interfere and make things turn out better for the "good people", but only make sure that time flows as it's suppose to. It seems to me that the Keepers are of the same vein here, wanting only to repair the dimensions.

[Tac]

9 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

I always hate  to disagree with you. But I must point out the keyword here is 'assume.' Through all the darkness and even references to 'great evil,' there has never been much indicating that the devil or any such variation inhabits the MPD. I understand much of the community has come to assume this is the case, but 'great evil' can also refer to a situation or an element that brings suffering. Not to mention that the devil known as Lucifer/Satan is a deceiver, notorious for disguising himself as an angel of light and beauty, often offering wealth and pleasure on earth in return for his target's soul.

 

I think Mod of the Dead and then the general theme of Hell in zombies shows that isn't exactly the case, but I do see your point.

Quote

Now, while the Vril Ya known as the Keepers may be extraordinarily intelligent, I believe that they have a major flaw: they are unable to perceive individual differences, and, blindly and mindlessly dedicated to pursuing and accomplishing (or deterring) whatever it is the are assigned to do. They're almost like living computers: emotionless, but accurate, problem-solving, and methodically efficient while having excellent foresight.

It is these traits that make the Vril-Ya a truly dangerous and ominous threat to the universe. As we have seen, a single corrupted keeper can really raise hell.

They're described in a similar manner elsewhere so you may be correct.

9 hours ago, Ragdo11706 said:

@Tac I personally feel the "Keepers" are "Good" or the "Lesser of Two Evils. As I've always thought, beginning with seeing them in Origins. They've always tried to prevent us from completing whatever objective it was pertaining to that specific map.

That's identical to how I feel. Their duty is not to humans, but often times the interests align.

[NaBrZHunter]

6 hours ago, Matuzz said:

In Call of the Dead we were given the Vril generator by Vril Ya trough a human sacrifice so, I don't think they have been trying to stop us every time. Sacrificing seems to be quite big part for them. Warden in the Mob of the Dead had altar that he probably used for sacrificing maybe he used the prisoners as gifts for the Vril Ya. Shadows of Evil also has altar for them as well as Shangri La. Though it could be argued that it was to worship Richtofen. And generally it seems Vril Ya are after people who have commit sins (prisoners and SoE group) as well as bringing dead back as zombies.

 

I've been hearing folks say this for so long, but I think it's been misconstrued. In Call of the Dead, we are actually given the Golden Rod by a Soviet submarine that bounces a beam off the top of the lighthouse and down. Call of the Dead has a history and reeks, if you will, of human experimentation. The ship is covered in shipping containers with human-shaped cutouts where subjects were clearly retrained and hooked up to some kind of device; the radios are the story of Richtofen's experiments, and the tradition of a person being beamed up like that is usually used in alien abduction stories where experimentation takes place. I do not believe that what happens at CotD is a human sacrifice, despite the 'resemblance' to SoE. 

[Ragdo11706]

4 hours ago, Matuzz said:

I personally believe that there is no multiple factions out there but just the Vril Ya. They are the evil entity that Samantha describes. They are this alien race from other dimension and everything behind the zombies story as whole. They were what turned Samantha into demonic creature when she entered MPD.

If we were to make pyramid out of what we know about the Vril Ya at this point I would put Keepers in the top, that's not to say there is no god or other creature like that in the Vril Ya hierarchy that controls everything. Then comes the Shadows of Evil monsters. To me they are like animals that Vril Ya control just like zombies and hell hounds. It could be that they are from other dimension and as such are not part of actual Vril Ya race just like zombies are not actually Vril Ya but are being controlled by them or by who is in the MPD none the less.

On the bottom I would place the servants of Vril Ya. Those being the Shadow Man, Warden, George Romero etc.

The only problem I have with this, why on Shadows, if you activate the PaP Ritual on a Parasite/Elemental Round, the Parasites/Elementals will actually stop attacking you and begin attacking and killing the "Keepers".

This is the very reason I feel as if they are Two different "Races" if you will.

[JJMFP]

14 hours ago, Tac said:

Heck no! There's no way. The entity we've always assumed was in the MPD was Lucifer/the Devil/Satan/etc, and you think we could kill the Devil that easily? Additionally, if we were facing the Devil, I feel like they would have made it much more obvious (i.e. 666, pentagram, anything stereotypical).

 

I don't believe the Vril-ya/Keepers are inherently "good" for humanity, and I think anyone who thought that had a misconception. They are fighting good and evil forces in the Universe, and a human can be good or eviI, so I'm hesitant to say they are always 100% of the time good for us. That's not to say it's a bad thing, I mean who knows what it is. We have no clue.

I am with you on this.  I think the Vril-ya/Keepers will continue to fight any other multi-dimensional being that stands in their way, including us.  Technically we are multi-dimensional beings are we not?  As I recall, the shadowman labeled them as "our true enemies".  They were really his enemies standing in the way of his own power hungry greed.  It may feel like they helped us, but sometimes even good and evil have to work together due to their interests aligning.

[Castun50]

as awesome as some of these thoughts are, we must remember that satan lucifer ect ect was our assumptions based on what we know about 666 and pentagrams is all references to satan but it could also mean we are being trolled. I honestly think vrillya = keepers like everyone else. however faction wise i think that is a great assumption. however i think corruption is most definitly happening. Why else would the vrillya attack us if we are doing "the right thing"? I dont understand that at all. but i most definitly think the pentagrams, moon pyramid, other voices is all connected to the vrillya and treyarch did a good job of hiding it by putting hints to other things. Either that or they had not written that far out into the story so now they changed it. just a thought...

[Korima]

Edit: figured I'd throw in that I haven't played Eisendrache yet due to steam. If the Keepers from Shadows appear, then it could simply be them following Richtofen to get the summoning key back.

The way I see it with this multiverse thing going on... The Keepers exist in each in different forms. Vril-ya could be the form they exist in the Origins universes, hence their strange appearance in The Crazy Place. In Shadows, they took on a more Lovecraft-friendly appearance. 

 

Their goals seem to be preventing The Gateway from being opened. The Gateway in shadows was the Pack-a-punch. In Nightmares, it was something Dr. Salim did. In Moon, it was the MPD. It's whatever has a direct link to the aetherical realm of each universe, whether it be called Aether, Agartha, or Malum.

the reason being every time a Gateway is opened, a Great Evil is unleashed. Deimos, Azathoth/Cthulu, even Hades (if you count MotD keeping Nightmare's Greek God influence and its references to Cerebus). 

 

We were never introduced to what this "Great Evil" is in the original WaW/BlOps universe because maxis intervened. (Personally I think it's the maxis from Giant radios who did it, but that's another story.) If I remember correctly, the Nuketown zombies had an Aztec God on a candy bar on the loading screen or something, but I'd have to look back and see. What's really concerning is if the Nightmares ending is foreshadowing, we could see quite a showdown coming up in the future.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Korima

[Ragdo11706]

@Korima I believe Mictlantecuhtli is the reference your thinking of. 

Edited February 7, 2016 by Ragdo11706