I miss simplicity.

[Doppelgänger]

I'm a veteran in the zombies portion of Call of Duty. I've been playing since World at War and have stuck with the game and the story since then.

Both World at War and Black Ops 1 featured the Golden Age of Zombies in my opinion. The maps, wonder weapons, unique zombies were all amazing and suited each map so well. When Black Ops 2 came around, the simplicity of the old maps left. We were introduced to buildables which a lot of people didn't like. The maps were mediocre in my opinion and I felt that the overall vibe was gone. It no longer felt creepy as the older maps did.

I miss the survival aspect of zombies. I miss the simplicity of the maps.

Does anyone else feel the same?

[DaveLo07]

1 hour ago, Doppelgänger said:

l miss the survival aspect of zombies

This is the key point for me. I still think the maps are well designed, and a lot of the features added in like buildable and upgrade quests don't bother me, but the survival aspect of the game has been steady declining since BO2. I'm surprised they haven't learnt from BO2 that ww's that infinitely kill and have delayed/chain effects make for negative strategy. As someone who started with gameplay being the main draw, I want it to be hard. I want it to be more of a challenge than an endurance test. 

I can appreciate that we are never going to get maps that are simplicistic as Nacht or Verruckt again. The game has come a long way since then. But at least BO2 had survival maps, which I would love to have seen implemented in BO3, with various different perks/weapons available as it encourages diversity in strategy. Der Eisendrache, for example, looks like it has some tight areas. We could have had survival maps in these tigher areas, with limited weapons and perks, for that old school feel. I would really like to see a survival map with pack-a-punch but no WW or perks. 

I think striking the balance between maps that are rich in story, and gameplay that allows casual gamers to experience all features of the map is not easy, but some of the new features feel poorly balanced/implemented. Funnily enough, from a gameplay point of view, Bus Depot and Nuketown were my favourite 2 maps from BO2 as they provided a challenge that most of the other maps couldn't.

 

 

[Tac]

I think it's because we haven't been exposed to the new stuff long enough. The atrocity that was Black Ops 2 is still in the back of our minds.

[Guest]

Play the old maps then? Its not like you are forced to play the new maps. Things evolve, zombies is no different.

[NaBrZHunter]

I'm with you for the most part, and I heartily agree that BO1/WAW was the golden age. Did you see my similar rant? It's in my signature it you're interested. 

The thing that I really hate is gameplay-EE forced tie-ins. Back when it was an all-perks reward and actually worth it (as in, it was the only way to really get all perks), that kinda benefit made sense. But the whole tying-in EE steps to the arsenal (staves, swords, pack-a-punch access, bows) is frustrating to me. Zombies was cooler when the story was more...subtle. Now you can't get away from it (not that I ever want to, but some others do, and it was better when the EE was actually a hidden EE and not a 'do the EE if you want the best weapons' thing.)

And wonder weapons these days are SO irritating. Those freaking bows. It annoys me to no end to watch people stand around in a corner and fire one charged shot at a time, out of 75 rounds, slaughtering zombies at a rate that makes it more like a screen saver than a game. OP'd WWs like the thunder gun was where it was at. OP, but limited ammo. Hell, what was the Thundergun at? 25 shots? That would last you 7-8 rounds without a max ammo with only, like I said 20-odd rounds! -_- the idea of what a wonder weapon was seems to be gone now. 

@Nightmare Voyager don't be an ass about it, man. Those of us who preferred the simpler ways would like to see some new content the way we like it. Good for you, it fits what you wanted perfectly. Some of us are less satisfied, and being zombies fans just as loyal as you, spending as much (I'll wager I've spent more) as you on the games, we are entitled to the right to voice our preferences. They aren't unreasonable. 

[83457]

For me waw was the shit. BO1 annoyed me so much in that rounds 4-10 were really hard and then it was cake.

BO2 made me happier (minority, i know), but they were too easy, with too much busywork.

Despite the never ending glitch train and crap like the arbgwaoth debacle and charging for licky-d, i like SoE quite a bit.

I like it because i can play this long, drawn out game with various weapon choices, or i can only open certain areas and have built in survival maps that put bo2 survival maps to shame.

I don't understand why we can't have both. Give a couple story/busywork maps, and some simple survival maps.

They failed at that so hard in bo2, that i don't think they want to try again, but they should. If they ditched the fire, ditched the random Nuketown perks, and didn't close nuketown into tiny sections, those survival maps would have been great. (I was looking forward to nuketown, i really thought it would be cool training around the houses...but It's one of my least favorite maps ever the way it came out).

I think the issue is that Trollargh designs for them (pros at the game) and don't realise that 95% of the fan base isn't on that level. Make simple survival maps like Der Riese, SNN, town, farm, et cetera, but without annoyance.

Even bus depot: just having an option to turn on perks (custom game) would have created massive replay value. The four regular perks in that tiny map means that i would be playing it right now.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, NaBrZHunter said:

I'm with you for the most part, and I heartily agree that BO1/WAW was the golden age. Did you see my similar rant? It's in my signature it you're interested. 

The thing that I really hate is gameplay-EE forced tie-ins. Back when it was an all-perks reward and actually worth it (as in, it was the only way to really get all perks), that kinda benefit made sense. But the whole tying-in EE steps to the arsenal (staves, swords, pack-a-punch access, bows) is frustrating to me. Zombies was cooler when the story was more...subtle. Now you can't get away from it (not that I ever want to, but some others do, and it was better when the EE was actually a hidden EE and not a 'do the EE if you want the best weapons' thing.)

And wonder weapons these days are SO irritating. Those freaking bows. It annoys me to no end to watch people stand around in a corner and fire one charged shot at a time, out of 75 rounds, slaughtering zombies at a rate that makes it more like a screen saver than a game. OP'd WWs like the thunder gun was where it was at. OP, but limited ammo. Hell, what was the Thundergun at? 25 shots? That would last you 7-8 rounds without a max ammo with only, like I said 20-odd rounds! -_- the idea of what a wonder weapon was seems to be gone now. 

@Nightmare Voyager don't be an ass about it, man. Those of us who preferred the simpler ways would like to see some new content the way we like it. Good for you, it fits what you wanted perfectly. Some of us are less satisfied, and being zombies fans just as loyal as you, spending as much (I'll wager I've spent more) as you on the games, we are entitled to the right to voice our preferences. They aren't unreasonable. 

I'm not though, I was literally saying that things evolve and zombies is no different. If zombies suddenly went back to the way it was back in WaW, I would not complain. In fact, I like it that way and want that as well. But I understand you can't have both.

I never even said he wasn't a loyal fan, you just made that up to make me look bad.

[anonymous]

I wasnt a zombie player in the WaW/BO1 age.

Its sad to hear it was once more fun, but at the other hand, Im glad I didnt experienced it.

I dont miss anything, because Im used to the new maps.

However, with the newest maps I think our actions are always too preconditioned.

Take SoE for example, you always have to do the beast things first, and after that the rituals.

In DE, almost everybody first do the dragon heads, then making the bow and DG-4, and after that some other things.

We do always the same, not like the BO2 days (and probably BO1 and WaW too) when we tried every match an other stragedy.

[NaBrZHunter]

1 hour ago, Nightmare Voyager said:

I'm not though, I was literally saying that things evolve and zombies is no different. If zombies suddenly went back to the way it was back in WaW, I would not complain. In fact, I like it that way and want that as well. But I understand you can't have both.

I never even said he wasn't a loyal fan, you just made that up to make me look bad.

Naw, man, I wouldn't malign you. Don't take it that way. No offense intended. Your easygoing-ness works out well for you, and we're a bit disappointed, that's all. We can leave it at that. :)

@anonymous good way of putting it. Hey, back in the day there wasn't a whole lot about the Easter eggs that pulled the players in in terms of benefit. So it was more casual. You start the game, run for the box or your favorite wall weapon, grab some Jugg, and then maybe vary your gameplay from there. Around round 10, 15, hey, maybe we'll do the Easter Egg to have more to do. But it wasn't any of this stuff where zombie slaying is almost offhanded. We start the game and everyone starts rushing to get the EE started. It gets nearly impossibly to play without a mic! I always prefer a mic, but there were some nights I was just too tired to talk, and we managed to communicate by supporting each other and being aware of the others' needs for the sake of the whole team. 

[Doppelgänger]

The real problem for me is that the maps are too quest oriented. Tranzit could have been an amazing map, they focused too much on restricting us that it made the map, at least in my opinion, terrible. The fog coupled with lava and the denizens were just too much. They tried to go too big and it went wrong. On top of that, with Shadows of Evil we have elements inspired from the Cthulhu Mythos. Like what @NaBrZHunter has in his signature, these elements that they are bringing to zombies really takes it away from what made the older maps great. However, by no means am I throwing Black Ops 3's zombies into the dirt. Yes there are elements they use that I dislike, but that is what an opinion is. I'm just disappointed that they keep trying to make the maps more and more complicated, that they lose sight of what made zombies so great in the first place. The feeling the old maps had and the survival aspect was always the thing that drew me to zombies. More doesn't always equal better. It's really good to see people's different opinions.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Doppelgänger

[anonymous]

11 hours ago, Doppelgänger said:

The real problem for me is that the maps are too quest oriented. Tranzit could have been an amazing map, they focused too much on restricting us that it made the map, at least in my opinion, terrible. The fog coupled with lava and the denizens were just too much. They tried to go too big and it went wrong. On top of that, with Shadows of Evil we have elements inspired from the Cthulhu Mythos. Like what @NaBrZHunter has in his signature, these elements that they are bringing to zombies really takes it away from what made the older maps great. However, by no means am I throwing Black Ops 3's zombies into the dirt. Yes there are elements they use that I dislike, but that is what an opinion is. I'm just disappointed that they keep trying to make the maps more and more complicated, that they lose sight of what made zombies so great in the first place. The feeling the old maps had and the survival aspect was always the thing that drew me to zombies. More doesn't always equal better. It's really good to see people's different opinions.

I fully agree with you. Why dont they make just a relative small, indoor, creepy map once more? I guess this would be sold bad, and thats why they dont do it, but they could make a DLC with beside a big complicated map, a small, simple creepy map for when players played the other maps for too long and want something different. Just survive.

[Doppelgänger]

I agree. Maybe just a small bonus map in one or more of the next DLC's.

Another thing that bugs me is that they use modern weapons in these maps that are clearly set in a completely different time. That also partly ruins the vibe.

[anonymous]

6 hours ago, Doppelgänger said:

Another thing that bugs me is that they use modern weapons in these maps that are clearly set in a completely different time. That also partly ruins the vibe.

The mystery box was supposed to deliver weapons from all eras. Now it are only bo3 weapons.

[ZombieSlayer1997]

When the final bo2 dlc came out so many people were disappointed because unlike bo1, there was just the one zombies map. At least we are prepared for that now. I'd love it if some old maps return as bonus maps. I agree that waw/bo1 was the golden age. In bo2 maps started to become a bit complicated, like PAP on Motd and Tranzit, and Shadows is ok, but the PAP process is ridiculously tedious and there's way too much happening at once. Der Eisendrache is good but getting set up with everything (bow, Jug, DG4, good weapons, upgraded bow) takes too long.

Bo1 got it just right IMO and I really hope to see Kino, ascension and shang ri la.

[shirtlesservice]

I like when maps have a mix of both. I think that Ascension was a really good example of how a map can be done well. There are story elements, there is an easter egg with an in game achievement that wasn't really too over powered (imagine being give a 90 second death machine now... literally do round 50 in like 30 seconds) but is also had some survival aspects, as well as a ton of different areas you could train or camp if you wanted to. If the easter egg had an actually achievement associated with it that would be even better.

I think Der eisendrache is going in the right direction. That being said, I would love to have the thundergun back 

We haven't had a good "blast zombies out of the way I don't give a damn" weapon in far too long

[Doppelgänger]

Just now, shirtlesservice said:

I like when maps have a mix of both. I think that Ascension was a really good example of how a map can be done well. There are story elements, there is an easter egg with an in game achievement that wasn't really too over powered (imagine being give a 90 second death machine now... literally do round 50 in like 30 seconds) but is also had some survival aspects, as well as a ton of different areas you could train or camp if you wanted to. If the easter egg had an actually achievement associated with it that would be even better.

Agreed. Obviously that is why Ascension is one of the most favourable maps in the community. I personally loved it. It felt so creepy, but at the same time it kept that vibe that the original 4 maps gave me. Vote 1 for more maps like Ascension.

[anonymous]

Do you think this map is better then CotD? Im still not sure which one of these two Im gonna buy.

[Doppelgänger]

Just now, anonymous said:

Do you think this map is better then CotD? Im still not sure which one of these two Im gonna buy.

It all depends on your preferences and what kind of maps you like. Have you done some research on them? Both of them are really good maps. Both setting and gameplay-wise as well as their size. There are a number of really good spots to train zombies if you're going for high rounds and the Wonder Weapons on both maps are really cool. Both have very intricate Easter Eggs (however Call of the Dead's EE can be done on solo). If you're asking for my opinion, I honestly couldn't decide out of the two of them to be completely honest.

[shirtlesservice]

1 hour ago, anonymous said:

Do you think this map is better then CotD? Im still not sure which one of these two Im gonna buy.

If you're doing high rounds it's Ascension, the scavenger on COTD stops killing in one hit at 37. I think COTD is more of a challenging map, but it's really one of my favorites because there's a TON of stuff in it. If you wanna do the Easter egg then I'd go with COTD, I've done the Easter egg twice on solo and its not too easy, not too hard.

In short, it's preference. I'd spring and get both, wait till you have enough, or buy one then buy the other when you can.

[83457]

One old school thing that i really miss: the zombies came for you no matter where you went. No matter how far you ran, where ever you hid, you would see that zombie ambling (or running) after you until it got there.

Now, he despawns and respawns next to you. That sucked when it was new and still ruins the feel, while adding unnecessary annoyance. It's one of those things that i figured they would eventually repair to the older, better, way.

It felt scary back then, now it just feels stupid with the respawns.

[shirtlesservice]

3 hours ago, 83457 said:

One old school thing that i really miss: the zombies came for you no matter where you went. No matter how far you ran, where ever you hid, you would see that zombie ambling (or running) after you until it got there.

Now, he despawns and respawns next to you. That sucked when it was new and still ruins the feel, while adding unnecessary annoyance. It's one of those things that i figured they would eventually repair to the older, better, way.

It felt scary back then, now it just feels stupid with the respawns.

Even if not for the scare factory, this was good when you had a crawler and wanted to go get stuff done on the map. You can't do that anymore, the zombie will just respawn fully grown right next to you and ruin your day

[83457]

4 minutes ago, shirtlesservice said:

Even if not for the scare factory, this was good when you had a crawler and wanted to go get stuff done on the map. You can't do that anymore, the zombie will just respawn fully grown right next to you and ruin your day

And revives too. "Don't worry, i got you"...10 stealth zombies jump out of window and down me as i revive.

And what's with just loading zombies in the map near you? I'm not stupid, i play on 19 sensitivity, i look, no zombies, look away, look back, and there are 8 zombies walking in the middle of junction. I can tell by the half-second that i looked away, compared to their slow amble, that they just appeared right there. They didn't climb out of windows or anything. Black Lace: they launch out of the ground, 10 feet in front of the 'window' stage right. Why make them cheat? Load them in their damn load zones!

---------

I may be feeling a little bitter today. 3 games, 4 deaths, one death was legitimate. The last one, i died because i drank juggernog (I'm not joking, sadly). I really hate these February 360 patch glitches, the game is becoming unplayable. 

Yesterday, i stood in the alcove of the Canal Rift, the margwa teleported through the trap there, then slammed the column that supports the tram. I was like "why is he hitting that column over there?", and i died. Hadn't been hit in a minute or so (previous round), i had juggernogg, so even if it glitched and hit me i would have survived, but no, i was just instakilled by a margwa that didn't even hurt me. This is common since February. The margwas are game-ruinlingly glitched to the max. Sigh.

Well, it's just situation normal...for a Treyarch game.

[anonymous]

On ‎7‎-‎3‎-‎2016 at 6:12 PM, shirtlesservice said:

If you're doing high rounds it's Ascension, the scavenger on COTD stops killing in one hit at 37. I think COTD is more of a challenging map, but it's really one of my favorites because there's a TON of stuff in it. If you wanna do the Easter egg then I'd go with COTD, I've done the Easter egg twice on solo and its not too easy, not too hard.

In short, it's preference. I'd spring and get both, wait till you have enough, or buy one then buy the other when you can.

I did some more research on the maps and I think I first buy CotD. (ascension maybe later.

Uhm I got a question and I dont know where to post it but I will say it here: What has Takeo to do with monkeys? When you get a monkey homb from the box Dempsey says something about Takeo, and when Richthofen talks about Takeos portrait in Kino, he says something about Takeo.

[NaBrZHunter]

2 hours ago, anonymous said:

I did some more research on the maps and I think I first buy CotD. (ascension maybe later.

Uhm I got a question and I dont know where to post it but I will say it here: What has Takeo to do with monkeys? When you get a monkey homb from the box Dempsey says something about Takeo, and when Richthofen talks about Takeos portrait in Kino, he says something about Takeo.

CotD before Ascension? :O how could you?!? ;) But really, Ascension is one of the best maps ever, while CotD is...only meant for a handful of folks. I like it, but only after having played for hours in desperation and disgust. 

Hahahaha! Takeo and the monkey bomb. It's a longstanding joke. Takeo is very attached to the monkey and Nikolai thinks he had an affair with it. lol 

[anonymous]

16 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

CotD before Ascension? :O how could you?!? ;) But really, Ascension is one of the best maps ever, while CotD is...only meant for a handful of folks. I like it, but only after having played for hours in desperation and disgust. 

Hahahaha! Takeo and the monkey bomb. It's a longstanding joke. Takeo is very attached to the monkey and Nikolai thinks he had an affair with it. lol 

I wanted to buy CotD this eve, but you made me doubt again. Whats the reason why you like Ascension more and what does it have what other maps dont have? Or perhaps I just have to buy them both... And that story about Takeo and the monkey ?