Definition of a perfect map?

[InfestLithium]

An interesting question, with hopefully interesting results.

 

When the map came out, I personally saw very mixed results about the map itself. Many said it was an easy map for high rounds, some said it was very confusing to navigate, and very little actually criticized it in whole. Now that I (an Xbox player) got my hands on it and got a general feel for it while still in the honeymoon stage, I'm curious to see what the community thinks of it all-together.

 

To be blunt, I love it. Imagine Shangri-la, Shi No Numa, and Resolution 1295 (Buried) had a baby. Zetsubou no Shima would be the ideal offspring. Why? Simple.

 

• Very wide map with many different levels to it (Buried).
• Hidden corridors and confusing hallways that making navigating around an adventure (Buried).
• Enriching atmosphere with some to little eyesight for what's in front of your pathwise (Shangri-la).
• Creep factor of the environment and the zombie pathing (Shi No Numa).
• Multi-levels tucked away at the back of the map with many close-encounter rooms (Shangri-la).
• Traps that allow you to tuck in a certain area for a while and train efficiently where you're at (Shi No Numa).
• Mythology up the wahzoo (Shangri-la)!

 

Honestly, this is the ideal kind of map. Great murky atmosphere for zombies, sense of dread coming around each corner, the feeling of being lost because of multiple corridors, scattered arsenal and perk machines to make surviving early on rather challenging, and the ability to actually CHOOSE MORE THAN 1/2 AREAS TO SURVIVE IN COMPLETELY.

 

What do y'all think? Would you call this the "perfect" orientation for a map?

[Hells Warrrior]

To be honest @InfestLithium I played it a couple of times with @jaysta5792 on the PS4 but I wasn't feeling the love, I'm looking to get to play on the One to see how it plays and with more players I'm accustomed to playing with but I understand why you say that and I agree. It does have many varying aspects to it and it does make it a challenging map but I'm not entirely certain on how its plays, how easy it plays and as a result the difficulty level.

 

SoE is more difficult that some give it credit for, it's a fairly large map with some tight spots on it.

The Giant, well we all know and love The Giant/Der Riese

Der Eisendrache has become Buried of BOIII, it's far too easy to get high rounds on it and it's not exactly challenging in all fairness. I credit myself and being better than average but only just and I credit my boy as being about the same as me now and at 12 is getting 40+ on DE easily and he can set himself up very early. The only real challenge is the EE and even then when you are prepared correctly, it's not the "challenging".

 

Best definition of a good map, in all honesty I'm still a massive fan of MoTD, I think that map epitomises a near perfect map, closely followed by Origins.

[Doppelgänger]

I wished there was a more emphasis on ancient temples. That is probably my only problem with the map.

[DaveLo07]

I don't think it is the perfect orientation of a map, but I have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. I'm not a big fan of the power and pack-a-punch mechanics and think they will take away from the replayabillity as time wears on, the same with the plants, but there is not much else I can criticise.

 

The atmosphere of the map reminds me of Shangri-La and I really like the way the plants and spiders are involved with the WW , feels like the individual story elements of this map were well thought out and designed.

 

I haven't played far enough to see what the map has to offer in terms of strategy, but the layout of the map does seem more challenging and the weapons and equipment more balanced than other maps. I have to agree with @Hells Warrior in regards to DE. That would be up there as one of my favourite maps in BO3 if it wasn't so easy. I need to give Zetsubou no Shima a bit more time but it feels like a more balanced map.

[NaBrZHunter]

ZNS, in my opinion, is the best map since Moon, and perhaps even better than any other map to date. My only hesitancy is in that the BO1 EEs were so perfect, but even so, it would seem, if @Doppelgängerand my blacked-out investigation of the map reveals a logical EE progression, and one that is not a chore to complete, like SoE, DE, Origins and Buried, then the map could easily align itself with Moon in my eyes. 

 

So that said, here are my pros:

• Lots of in-depth story in cipher, radio, quote and EE form
• Logical quests, such as the PAP (it's beautiful), the KT-4, and the plants and different ways of growing them
• Great buildables (gas mask, especially regarding certain abilities it gives, the shield, as always, and the KT-4)
• Lots of explorable, multi-level surface area
• Straightforward and story-implicative special weapon quest
• Awesome balance of claustrophobic and open, breathable areas, giving lots of options for survival strategies
• Water/swimming areas DONE RIGHT. I was not excited at the thought of swimming in zombies at all. But it was incredibly well done, and I love it. It seems to be more for the purpose of basic quests, exploration, and interesting gameplay, which is perfect.
• This map is expansive in amazing ways. It just seems to go on and on. I don't even know if I've seen the whole thing, but I know I'm in love with the underwater cavern. 
• The atmosphere is what makes this game what it was. It's spooky; eerie. The ambiance isn't overdone or underdone, with unique discoveries to be made in various areas. 

 

[Doppelgänger]

11 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

The ambiance isn't overdone or underdone, with unique discoveries to be made in various areas. 

 

This is why I love the map. The atmosphere is amazing in this map, because there aren't distractions that pull you away from the game. Take Mob of the Dead for example. More blood does not make a creepy/eerie map. It makes it cheesy and look overdone.

 

This is definitely my favourite map from Black Ops 3, and most almost my favourite of all time, coming just behind Ascension. 

[Koslans]

I've played it a handful of time on the xbox now and I want to say this: 

Setting up took about 45 minutes or even more and that was when I knew what I was doing.

 

Another problem I stumbled upon were the moments that you are running back and forth. 
Back and forth to get more water, back and forth to get a part in some dead-end tunnel... 
The swimming feel gimmicky for the feeling that they could have gone without water at all. 

I mean, a dead end? Is that really the best you can come up with? 

 

I like the map, but it surely won't be my favorite.

It has good elements like new enemies and cool ambient sounds, but I miss some sort of flow going from a to b or a reason to escape an area and go to the next or something, anything really. 

I'm not sure how to describe it.

 

Two more cents: 

The map is just too dark and needs some lights and colors. 

The giant spider is way too noisy! 

 

7/10 for me.

 

[NaBrZHunter]

Here's the thing about setup, though. Consider its size: you can have the PAP fully open and be packing a Bowie knife and HVK by round 10. Compare that to Der Riese, which, I believe, can be setup by round 6-7. It's a pretty fair balance.

 

And the lights are just about right, IMO. Too many more would be out of place in the naturally dark atmosphere. Maps are too colorful these days. Think Der Riese, Moon, CotD and Ascension. Great, gritty maps with minimal color.

 

 

[Koslans]

There are two ways to set up for a game. 

One way is the old 'I buy Juggernog and any gun I can pick off the wall'

The other is the high round setup including buildables, wonder weapons, all perks. That stuff. 

 

I don't mind to go a few rounds because I need points, but when a spider takes three minutes to get into the cage, I'm like.... dude.. c'mon!

 

As for the lights, some parts are simply so dark that it comes close to being pitch black. 

I like to have some idea of where I'm going, so I turn up the brightness and then the game doesn't look all that beautiful anymore.
But that might be a matter of taste. XD I was never fond of the looks of Call of the Dead either, although it's fun to play. 

 

My all time favorite place so far is the cinema area in Shadows of Evil. 

Nice and bright, lots of colors and eye candy. 

 

[NaBrZHunter]

Ah, I see. Odd, though, 'cause @Doppelgänger and I didn't even know that was a step at first, but eventually, we got it and usually are set up by round 16, short maybe 2 perks. 

 

And I get it now - yeah, now that I remember, some areas in the bunker are pitch. But man...I would PREFER they add a flashlight attachment option for guns. @Treyarch L4D had it...and we have lighting option is theatre...so please? :D 

 

I still can't agree about the colors, though. Zombies has always been a gritty, dark game. It would be a shame to abandon that. Even the humor and animations have always had a dark undertone. 

[anonymous]

@NaBrZHunter@Doppelgänger Hows progress with Zetsubou No Shima going?

[NaBrZHunter]

4 hours ago, anonymous said:

@NaBrZHunter@Doppelgänger Hows progress with Zetsubou No Shima going?

We've found 3 types of water and completed all buildables and the specialist weapon. So, pretty good so far. 

[Koslans]

11 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

And I get it now - yeah, now that I remember, some areas in the bunker are pitch. But man...I would PREFER they add a flashlight attachment option for guns. @Treyarch L4D had it...and we have lighting option is theater...so please? :D 

 

I still can't agree about the colors, though. Zombies has always been a gritty, dark game. It would be a shame to abandon that. Even the humor and animations have always had a dark undertone. 

A flashlight would be cool, but then again, I'd rather keep the stock and fast mags and such...
Still a nice idea to throw on the table. 

 

I can see where you're coming from with the color schemes and vibe of the whole map. 

 

I kinda miss some places that really stand out. 

In the other maps you're at the Ruby Rabbit, or you're at the clock tower or at the weather vane.

In this map you're ... there... around..  left... yeah kinda... over at that place...

Sorta...

 

But, my sense for direction is horrible, I know as much. XD

[jiipee95]

I just played Zetsubou No Shima yesterday and completed the easter egg with my little brother. I must say that the map and the atmosphere is very good and I like it once set up. The biggest problem is the long and tedious set up it has... Just the fact that if I manage to fail on round 15 I pretty much won't be bothered to try again...

[NaBrZHunter]

1 hour ago, jiipee95 said:

 Just the fact that if I manage to fail on round 15 I pretty much won't be bothered to try again...

It's the frking whirlygig zombies, man. They are the cancer of Black Ops 3. I understand and kick myself when I make a tactical miscalculation; but when I empty a whole HVK clip into 3 oncoming zombies, but one happens to be so close that he whirlwinds me at the last second, that pisses me off. The zombie hit rate needs to come down. It's killing the casual replayability of BO3 for me. 

 

Not only that, but also their 1:1 rotation rate. You move 1 point to the left, the whole train moves 1 point to the left, you move 60 points to the right, you're still staring them in the face. In fact, I had one turn a 180 from chasing someone else and slap me full in the face in a half second tonight. Thankfully, I got away, but that was just a reminder of how terribly imbalanced the rotation rate is. They also used to slightly slow when hitting you. Now they seem to continue to run until they have pushed you as far into another object as possible, leaving you with no mobility except slightly turning side to side, waiting until they reach around the shield. There have been multiple occasions (especially on the DE PAP platform and tonight against the protruding corner of a lone boulder on ZNS) in which I might as well just put down my controller until my shield breaks, since turning to try to shoot them will only down me sooner. 

 

Also, the number of Berserkers is exhausting. A few can be fun and challenging, but half a train of them is overkill. 

[jiipee95]

1 hour ago, NaBrZHunter said:

It's the frking whirlygig zombies, man. They are the cancer of Black Ops 3. I understand and kick myself when I make a tactical miscalculation; but when I empty a whole HVK clip into 3 oncoming zombies, but one happens to be so close that he whirlwinds me at the last second, that pisses me off. The zombie hit rate needs to come down. It's killing the casual replayability of BO3 for me. 

 

Not only that, but also their 1:1 rotation rate. You move 1 point to the left, the whole train moves 1 point to the left, you move 60 points to the right, you're still staring them in the face. In fact, I had one turn a 180 from chasing someone else and slap me full in the face in a half second tonight. Thankfully, I got away, but that was just a reminder of how terribly imbalanced the rotation rate is. They also used to slightly slow when hitting you. Now they seem to continue to run until they have pushed you as far into another object as possible, leaving you with no mobility except slightly turning side to side, waiting until they reach around the shield. There have been multiple occasions (especially on the DE PAP platform and tonight against the protruding corner of a lone boulder on ZNS) in which I might as well just put down my controller until my shield breaks, since turning to try to shoot them will only down me sooner. 

 

Also, the number of Berserkers is exhausting. A few can be fun and challenging, but half a train of them is overkill. 

I don't mind the zombie hit rate etc.. cause there's so much features that help you (like the shield, gobblegums) Only map I find it annoying is The Giant since it lacks the shield and a good wonder weapon though the challenge is what makes it the most fun map for me in Black ops 3...

 

And for me failing it's not always like the game was unfair or anything... I made a mistake and I can admit it, but it doesn't remove the fact that starting a new game in ZNS means doing all the set-up again and it's gonna take about an hour...

[anonymous]

21 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

We've found 3 types of water and completed all buildables and the specialist weapon. So, pretty good so far. 

Nice, keep up the progress. I wonder, you like this way of exploring the map more then watching videos about it (what I usually do)? I think if I would do it, I cant resist the curiousity.

[NaBrZHunter]

5 hours ago, anonymous said:

Nice, keep up the progress. I wonder, you like this way of exploring the map more then watching videos about it (what I usually do)? I think if I would do it, I cant resist the curiousity.

 

This is SO MUCH MORE FUN than watching videos. I haven't felt this sense of accomplishment since Der Riese and some of Moon before I even knew there was a community or videos at all. I may cave at some point if we don't make any progress on the EE, but so far, we've been pretty successful in finding stuff. We'be found something new every game. 

 

8 hours ago, jiipee95 said:

I don't mind the zombie hit rate etc.. cause there's so much features that help you (like the shield, gobblegums) Only map I find it annoying is The Giant since it lacks the shield and a good wonder weapon though the challenge is what makes it the most fun map for me in Black ops 3...

 

The shield doesn't really help you, though, if you're stuck in a corner or if you have a train sprinting after you, and a prediction re-spawn jumps over a barricade at the end of a narrow passage you are running through, slap you in the face 3 times and (only 1 zombie) pin you against the wall while the train destroys your shield. Less of a problem in ZNS, for some reason, as the textures feel more designed to avoid that kind of encounter, but not impossible. 

Honestly, I don't miss the shield in The Giant, though. I'm less of a fan of The Giant, anyway, and would rather play it on BO1 or WAW. 

[jiipee95]

4 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

 

 

 

The shield doesn't really help you, though, if you're stuck in a corner. 

Honestly, I don't miss the shield in The Giant, though. I'm less of a fan of The Giant, anyway, and would rather play it on BO1 or WAW. 

The shield has saved me so many times I don't even know... getting stuck at corner and having that small extra time to live just enough to swap to your Apothicon Servant or Upgraded Bow really makes a difference.

Edited May 22, 2016 by jiipee95

[Greer]

I'd enjoy the map more if it weren't for the spiders. I think it works for the map, but my real life fear of them gets between me and enjoying it. It's a shame really, because I truly do enjoy everything else in the map like the plant system and the quests for the KT-4 and Masamune. I haven't got round to doing the easter egg myself yet, because I genuinely can't face the Spider queen boss xD

[NaBrZHunter]

19 minutes ago, jiipee95 said:

The shield has saved me so many times I don't even know... getting stuck at corner and having that small extra time to live just enough to swap to your Apothicon Servant or Upgraded Bow really makes a difference.

Honestly, I have a deep dislike for both the Apothicon Servant and the bows, and prefer to never use them. Forced use of a wonder weapon on a low round like 15-20 has never been a thing in zombies before until now. I'm talking running a standard MG loadout. 

 

It's not that the shield hasn't helped me ever, it's that sometimes the problem isn't so much that protection is needed as you are completely unable to move. 

Quote

I'd enjoy the map more if it weren't for the spiders. I think it works for the map, but my real life fear of them gets between me and enjoying it. It's a shame really, because I truly do enjoy everything else in the map like the plant system and the quests for the KT-4 and Masamune. I haven't got round to doing the easter egg myself yet, because I genuinely can't face the Spider queen boss xD

Bahaha! I gotta have a chuckle and say this is fair. I'm sorry. :) Have you shared your zombies story yet? What's really funny about this is the number of people (including my wife) who have zombie-phobia, but have eventually overcome it as they've become accustomed to CoD Zombies. So there you have it. Use ZNS to overcome your fear; 'cause honestly, they re as perfectly themed for the map as Fluffy was for Der Riese or Monkeys were for Ascension. If you haven't yet, though, share your story in the thread linked below:

 

[Greer]

18 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

Honestly, I have a deep dislike for both the Apothicon Servant and the bows, and prefer to never use them. Forced use of a wonder weapon on a low round like 15-20 has never been a thing in zombies before until now. I'm talking running a standard MG loadout. 

 

It's not that the shield hasn't helped me ever, it's that sometimes the problem isn't so much that protection is needed as you are completely unable to move. 

Bahaha! I gotta have a chuckle and say this is fair. I'm sorry. :) Have you shared your zombies story yet? What's really funny about this is the number of people (including my wife) who have zombie-phobia, but have eventually overcome it as they've become accustomed to CoD Zombies. So there you have it. Use ZNS to overcome your fear; 'cause honestly, they re as perfectly themed for the map as Fluffy was for Der Riese or Monkeys were for Ascension. If you haven't yet, though, share your story in the thread linked below:

 

Lol, it's all good, I totally get it. It is hilarious honestly, but also infuriating that it stops me from enjoying the map. I can actually watch people play it easily enough, I helped my friend through the easter egg as he streamed it on Steam yesterday xD. I actually haven't shared on that thread yet, despite being on this forum for years

[ZombiesAteMyPizza!]

I think it'd be a damn good map if it wasn't for the fact that you have to do endless quests just to get everything. We shouldn't be forced to do the majority of the easter egg just to get an upgraded wonder weapon and access to another area of the map.

 

It's a bit basic, but I still think Der Riese is as close to the perfect map as we've gotten so far.

Edited May 24, 2016 by ZombiesAteMyPizza!

[way2g00d]

Why do I feel like I have no motivation to play this map after seeing videos of it? If someone is patient enough to carry me and teach me the basics of the game let me know and we can party up some point before my XBOX Live expires. I will be grateful.

 

@InfestLithium Sorry didnt' mean to threadcrap bud.

[Spider]

On 6/6/2016 at 4:44 PM, way2g00d said:

Why do I feel like I have no motivation to play this map after seeing videos of it? If someone is patient enough to carry me and teach me the basics of the game let me know and we can party up some point before my XBOX Live expires. I will be grateful.

 

@InfestLithium Sorry didnt' mean to threadcrap bud.

When does your Xbox Live run out?