Monty is the Devil.

[Tattoo247]

Maybe next we can inject some politics into the lore....

No I do not refer to God and Devil as a Christian term, there have been plenty of God's and Devils before that book entered the world. 

I am speaking merely by a definition, Monty creates, therefor in my opinion he is a God, not THE God, not even the only God (although possible) but someone with enough power to invision a world and create it in his image. A god or devil, or just an evil God....treyarch has never been one for definite labels, as most things are open for interpretation.

But excuse me for my input on a topic literally named Monty is the Devil, this is why my visit's and posts have deminished.

[RadZakpak]

Let's get back to the topic on hand here before this thread gets locked. We're all entitled to opinions, but this isn't the place for debate on such questions.

 

Now Monty's powers are pretty vague, but like he's said, he cannot just create things out of thin air. By what he says it's a bit more complicated than that. So he's not really a God in a traditional sense, and he's not really omnipotent either, except maybe in his own little universe. Maybe more than a God or Devil he's like an overseer of humanity across the multi-verse.

[Castun50]

On 9/27/2016 at 10:26 AM, NaBrZHunter said:

Do not confuse intensity of tone with disrespect. My response was entirely in line and respectful, if intense. 

Where you are mistaken however, is in your phrasing. Treyarch can make Monty a "god" or "deity" and simultaneously a "devil" if they so pleased, but not "God." There is a difference. By his very character, Monty has already 100% disproved the concept that he is God. 

 

Also, you say "can't have the devil without the Good Lord" and I entirely agree, and have oft made such an argument. People tend to be of a persuasion that "the devil" is responsible for such and such an incident but like to pretend that there is no God when such a concept is literally impossible. On the other hand, creating a lore like the Cthulhu Mythos fully abandons the idea of "the devil" and creates for itself, instead, an independent pantheon of deities of different origin which can, within a fictional lore, be designed however the author sees fit. This is not the case with God Almighty of Judeo-Christianity and Lucifer, however, as the very things that make them who they are force them to be separate and for Lucifer to be pitifully helpless before the power of God and for God to be wholly and entirely perfect and righteous. To establish the character of God within a lore or mythos as being compromised or in any way imperfect nullifies any claim that He is God, therefore, making whoever you declare in the lore to be 'God' as being rather a 'god,' and, as God created Lucifer and not 'a god' therefore the 'devil' you have created in your lore is no longer Lucifer himself, as his existence literally cannot be, as God does not exist. You may create 'a devil' within your lore and say he has been called 'Lucifer' by some, yet that only states that the name has been used to identify your created devil but is not actually him, after all.

Furthermore, you have therefore undermined your own suggestion in that same statement since, while it is true that there would be no Lucifer without there was a God Almighty, it is also therefore just as preposterous to suggest that Lucifer and God Almighty are one. Again, that makes your lore 'God' not God because God is who He is and a compromise of His identity immediately and completely separates any artist's creation from any identity of God. 

 

I think you @RadZakpak essentially said it right, except in stating that he is "God, Allah..."

While I see the point you are trying to make, it is rather that Monty is, it would seem, the being which is in the place of which the race of humanity perceives as diety due to his originality. A sort of Tiki god, a Prometheus kind of lore. 

yes but this is a video game. I am comparing him to what we believe (if your a christian and believe in all that i do not push it down peoples throats) to be god. the almighty, the big bang maker, the one who started life, and the one who takes away life. the devil, the dark one, fallen angel, runs hell. thats my opinion and im sticking to it. I am not aruging further. i think monty is either A. the god of this universe (universies?) or the devil himself. either way monty and shadow man are definitly connected in some way. whether you want to call it like god or something else. I really dont care. however i look at them and think of the devil and god. sorry you dont like that they could have been both at one point. again its a thought. not apologizing

[Castun50]

On 9/27/2016 at 8:52 AM, RadZakpak said:

Personally, I don't really think Monty is necessarily "Evil" or "Good". I think we're looking at this in a too black-and-white manner. He's said before that free will was his idea. And he's constantly referencing free-will mockingly, like it was a big mistake. He's an omnipotent being who planted the seeds for humanity, and decided to give us free-will. And what do you know, we mucked it up. Monty isn't really like a God in a Western sense, where he is everything good and there is an evil which is everything evil. He is one being, with his own flaws and his own desires. The Shadowman wasn't lying when he said Monty is referred to as the Devil, Lucifer, Satan, etc. But he's also God, Allah, every God ever.

 

Basically he wanted to help us. He put out the "app" asking if people were happy. He created power-ups and sent perk machines to help the crew fight off the apothicons. But he's stubborn and egotistical, like the average human. He wants a perfect little world where he is in control. So he makes the house, and enlists Primis, pawns in his game, to gather versions of themselves, children, to populate his little world. At the end of the Revelations EE, Sophia and Maxis leave, and Monty sends Primis away. It's just him and the children. Finally, Monty can rest knowing he controls this dimension. THe children we've seen, and maybe even potentially other children we haven't seen, populate this world. They are innocent, pure, and will not question him, or fight, or cause war. That is his goal. Total control, even if it is over more simple-minded individuals.

 

That's just how I feel about Monty. I can see his perspective, humans cause so many problems and he regrets giving us free will. He is what humanity interpreted as both God and the Devil, in one being.

 

The thing is, he is not much better than the Shadowman. Monty just wants humanity to be under his rule. Shadowman wants to destroy Monty's perfect little world, and assimilate everyone for the Apothicons. Conflict of interest is all it is.

i dig this alot. I hope once DLC4 hype is over, treyarch comes clean on everything. I hate this guessing game as fun as it is i want to know what they intend it to be. Would be pretty interesting. However video game wise, i mean they have their own fan form page. How awesome of a following is that?

[NaBrZHunter]

2 hours ago, Castun50 said:

yes but this is a video game. I am comparing him to what we believe (if your a christian and believe in all that i do not push it down peoples throats) to be god. the almighty, the big bang maker, the one who started life, and the one who takes away life. the devil, the dark one, fallen angel, runs hell. thats my opinion and im sticking to it. I am not aruging further. i think monty is either A. the god of this universe (universies?) or the devil himself. either way monty and shadow man are definitly connected in some way. whether you want to call it like god or something else. I really dont care. however i look at them and think of the devil and god. sorry you dont like that they could have been both at one point. again its a thought. not apologizing

If you feel like it's being shoved down your throat, I'm not sure who's doing the shoving. I'm simply stating fact, just like a Cthulhu fan would if you got Cthulhu lore wrong, or a Zombies fan would if you got zombies lore wrong. There are also facts about God that can be presented incorrectly, so I have attempted to more properly direct this thread for future readers, should they be mislead by your initial statements. 

The reason you feel like it is being shoved down your throat is because it is religious in nature. People seem to have a tolerance for facts of all kinds, but begin talking about facts pertaining to Christian belief and people will accuse you of shoving it down their throat for simply stating fact. So I have clarified, and did not request your apology. Such would have been inappropriate.

 

@RadZakpak this is actually all within the topic and locking it would not be justified. It is not wrong to make a corrective statement of fact regarding a subject to which you are familiar in response to a thread which initiated such a discussion but is innaccurate and misinformed simply because it is related to religion.

@Tattoo247 no offense was intended to anyone in this thread. Please see my comments above. This simply goes to show that various ones of us share different definitions of the nouns or adjectives, depending on your viewpoint, a god or a devil. While you may be referring to a general 'god' or 'devil,' others are not. It cannot simply be assumed that we are all debating the same terms here.  

[RadZakpak]

7 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

 

@RadZakpak this is actually all within the topic and locking it would not be justified. It is not wrong to make a corrective statement of fact regarding a subject to which you are familiar in response to a thread which initiated such a discussion but is innaccurate and misinformed simply because it is related to religion.

The comment was not directed at you in particular, more someone else, sorry for the mix-up.

[NaBrZHunter]

7 minutes ago, RadZakpak said:

The comment was not directed at you in particular, more someone else, sorry for the mix-up.

Ah, I see. No worries! Thanks. 

[64BitZomibie]

On 9/28/2016 at 4:43 AM, NaBrZHunter said:

It does depend on how you define "a god." The gods of most non-Christian religions would need help with stuff, yes. 

 

Also how does one celestial being just instantly zaps another out of existent? That is not possible as "Gods" can't necessarily be destroyed. Especially when another God of the same power does it. There just is no logic behind that. That would mean there would be chaos throughout the Universes and Argartha. Gods just would zap one another and there probably won't be any Gods left. 

[anonymous]

3 hours ago, 64BitZomibie said:

 

Also how does one celestial being just instantly zaps another out of existent? That is not possible as "Gods" can't necessarily be destroyed. Especially when another God of the same power does it. There just is no logic behind that. That would mean there would be chaos throughout the Universes and Argartha. Gods just would zap one another and there probably won't be any Gods left. 

In the Buried endgame something similar happens when Richthofen wins. He just destroys Maxis. Perhaps that might be more possible, because Maxis is in the Moon computer system.

[Tattoo247]

It's whatever dude, you obviously have more zombie lore knowledge than I do, I was just speaking my mind, but so were you.

 

It's true he cannot create without taking from somewhere else, perhaps he is more of an artist than an actual god. I just see him more of a balance of nature now than anything else, the more I play, and the more I listen to the quotes, he seems to WANT to keep a loop going. I first thought he was oblivious to what he is doing by sending them back, but to be honest it seems more practical to keep the loop going, because he has more control over how much good, or evil there is.

 

But I dunno...the story is lackluster at best now, this is just me clinging to past, nostalgia of theory building haha.

[64BitZomibie]

6 hours ago, anonymous said:

In the Buried endgame something similar happens when Richthofen wins. He just destroys Maxis. Perhaps that might be more possible, because Maxis is in the Moon computer system.

 

But Richtofen and Maxis are technically humans. So it would make sense that they could destroy each other using some sort of power. But when it is Gods doing it, it is practically unlikely. That's why you need more people than one God to defeat one God.

[NaBrZHunter]

20 hours ago, Tattoo247 said:

But I dunno...the story is lackluster at best now, this is just me clinging to past, nostalgia of theory building haha.

Yep...I totally feel ya. Nothing will ever top WAW/BO1