Is Zombies Dying (Mega Discussion)

[ZombiesIsKey]

So before I begin, I just want to say that I wasn't sure how to name this topic so I will leave it as it is and that also everyone is entitled to their own opinion so please no arguing lmao.

 

So the big question that seems to be going around everywhere just now is "Is Zombies Dying" I've seen it on Reddit, on YouTube and also on twitter. So let's discuss it.

 

My opinion is NO Zombies is not dying in any way what so ever. Although I do see problems with it.

 

As we know, Trearch are by far the real deal when it comes to zombies. They have the staff, they have the expericance and they have the talent. But this year we had Infinity Ward's attempt at Zombies and it just seems like no one is that interested. Not a lot of people like change so this also may be part of the problem. I personally feel that the whole "Zombies is dying" thing has came from IW Zombies as it is not to treyarchs standards but at the same time you have to remember that it isn't Trearch that is making the game and also IW have made its own zombie mode which isn't trying to completely copy Trearchs.

 

What I think the big problem for many people now is having Zombies for a second year in a row. It's getting repetitive for them and they and simply getting bored of the same old stuff again and especially when it isn't to the standards they want. It's just like multiplayer. So many people don't even play the new COD multiplayers as they are just the same thing but with boost suits etc which isn't to their liking so they play the old ones.

 

I actually like IW Zombies and I think they have done a good job for their first attempt and also I am liking the story so far. It's unique, simple and fun and gives me hours of fun. The EE hunts are great too and it's overall good for me.

 

What is your opinion and do you think that Zombies is dying?

[InfestLithium]

Zombies isn't dying - the community is. There are 3 kinds of Zombies enthusiasts: classic players, newcomers, and die-hard fans.

 

Classic players like to sit on their nostalgia-based rhetoric and claim the only true Zombies experience is if a Zombies mode returns to its "boots on the ground" simplistic slaying. With CoD trying to push more into futuristic gameplay (because WWII has been overdone in the FPS genre immensly), they veered away from Zombies all-together.

 

Newcomers have only a small grasp on the mode, and thus, tend to follow the biggest hype. These fans are mainly YouTuber followers to big names in the Zombies community, so they don't really have much to say and thus are practically invisible minus 1 or 2 comments.

 

Die-hard fans are exactly what you'd think: fans that are loyal to Zombies and continue to engage in the mode until death. There's no true beginning/ending date for them because they engross so much of their enthusiasm in the mode, that they'll basically play whatever new mode related to Zombies. The saying "don't knock it 'til you try it" is very relavent here.

 

Most of the people saying that Zombies is "dead" are those classic players and trailing die-hard fans. Newcomers generally say stuff like "Black Ops 2 and 3 are the best games ever".

[anonymous]

I think the word "dying" is kinda extreme. I prefer using the word "changing", because that is what is happening. Things just change, including CoDZ, especially CoDZ, and we have to accept that. And I guess we can't do anything but adapt. I agree with @Blurryface that three years of Zombies behind each other maybe is just a bit too much for the player. Zombies isn't unique anymore. It is not about the creepy stuff anymore. It doesn't have anything with the campaign to do anymore. It really became its own standalone part in the game. A standard part in CoD. If there is no zombies mode in a game, people are going to ask "Why no zombies?". But maybe that's just all we need for one or two years.

[ZombiesIsKey]

Both excellent replies.
The thing is, I remember back in BO1 when zombies really started being more than just that extra game mode, everyone I played with always said. " I hope the next COD has zombies " It was always the hope that it was always going to be in the next game.

I loved Extinction. It was different and it was its own unique thing that wasn't like anything else we had seen and now that we are getting more zombies, it's all becoming cluttered up and we are now having people no longer enjoying it.

People screamed for revelations to be a combination of all the old maps and once people got to play the map all they could do is complain about how poorly it was done which makes me agree with Infest on that it's the community that is dying.

Me personally will always have love for Zombies wether it's 3ARC or IW or any other developer. I know if I want a true good story I can play 3ARC and when I just want to have fun and not stress so much about the storyline I can play a less serious and more "fun" zombie mode with IW.

It's a real shame as I love the community to death and it has been home for a while but I just wish people would see the two sides instead of giving things hate because there favourite YouTuber doesn't like the map.


Sent from my iPhone using Call of Duty Zombies mobile app

[Tattoo247]

The community is indeed dying, mostly in part because of the direction of the storyline.

I know as long as CoD carries on, zombies, or the endless monster mode (as we seem to gradually steer away from just zombie enemies) will as well. 

To me the lightening in the bottle is gone, but I still wish to see all the cracks filled in for the sake of being around so long. 

Modes could solve the problems of diversity in fans these days easily, it's the storyline that has deminished our community, and it's the community that drives the back story, to a degree. Wether that means we are to blame or not I can't say, but I can say I don't remember anyone asking for half the stuff that was added, and I'm positive nobody wanted a rehash of MoTD to "end" our beloved storyline of all these years. Rant over, bed now.

[Hells Warrrior]

I would just like to say, I understand what others are saying and I appreciate their thoughts.

 

The big thing here, it is really big is that Call of Duty is dying, it has been dying for several years. Why? It's the same shite every year, it's the same bad programming year after year with all the glitches that it brings, it's the same shite every year without any real innovation.

 

Take a leaf out of Battlefield 1's book, wow - what an immense and different game.

 

Activision are to blame for introducing this shitty three year cycle, they are going for the bucks and nothing else and they were doing it before Sledgehammer got involved in the dev cycle. Several things need to change, they seriously need to invest in a new engine. The studios need to change strategy and understand that all this jumping about mechanics is complete nonsense (I'm sure new players and old will disagree).

 

As a result of Call of Duty is dying (and it is), which means Zombies is dying by default.

[ZombiesAteMyPizza!]

As has been said, it's the community that's dying more than anything. Sales due to the zombies game mode are higher than ever I imagine. However, I've been a lurker on various forums since way back when and I've seen all the different phases the community has gone through and honestly, I think it's been dying a slow death for about 5 years now.

 

The W@W days saw a bit of a cult-following. The small but entire community started to come together to figure out this fresh game mode and where it was going. Same when BO1 was first released, the game mode was gaining popularity and was a sure mainstay in Treyarch games - the community were coming together discussing strategy, storylines and there was a real sense of comradery. As all of us who were around at the time saw, though, the community started to turn a bit ugly about this time 5 years ago. A lot of people who had started to join the community, weren't in the community for the sake of being a community anymore - people were arguing about who came up with this strategy or that storyline theory, getting bitchy and lambasting each other other the legitimacy of world records or the way the individual chose to go about them, and it was IMO one of the worst periods for the community. After the whole Super hands incident, I noticed the community starting to die down, probably where people were leaving either because they didn't like how the community had become so fixated on world records and stuff, or because they were shocked at how the community reacted to the incident and how deluded and irrational a large portion of the community had become over a f***ing game.

 

As I said, I was just a lurker at the time and was considering joining, but in retrospect the reason I didn't is because I saw how bitchy, petty and competitive (in an extremely negative way) the community was becoming and I didn't want to be a part of it. I eventually joined some time later because this has all died down to a degree, but it continued for a few years following and the only reason it started to die down is because the strategy element of the game has died down where the gameplay has been convoluted and the player has been given a number of crutches which negates the need to be so strategical, hence the lack of need for the community to come together to figure it all out anymore. Now it's just dying because, although the game mode is as popular as ever to the casual fan, the sort of players who are into their gaming enough to join forums and stuff, are no longer interested in what has become a convoluted, gimmicky game mode that used to be about zombies, but now features zombies as a backdrop.

[Lenne]

On 16.2.2017 at 0:41 PM, Hells Warrrior said:

I would just like to say, I understand what others are saying and I appreciate their thoughts.

 

The big thing here, it is really big is that Call of Duty is dying, it has been dying for several years. Why? It's the same shite every year, it's the same bad programming year after year with all the glitches that it brings, it's the same shite every year without any real innovation.

 

Take a leaf out of Battlefield 1's book, wow - what an immense and different game.

 

Activision are to blame for introducing this shitty three year cycle, they are going for the bucks and nothing else and they were doing it before Sledgehammer got involved in the dev cycle. Several things need to change, they seriously need to invest in a new engine. The studios need to change strategy and understand that all this jumping about mechanics is complete nonsense (I'm sure new players and old will disagree).

 

As a result of Call of Duty is dying (and it is), which means Zombies is dying by default.

 

In which way is it dying?

It can't be due to the sale numbers cause even those for Infinite Warfare are better than most other games. Of course they are not where they once used to be, but as far as I know CoD is still one of the best selling pieces of media out there. Not to mention the profit Activision get's from CoD points.

Sorry HW, but if CoD is really dying it is a very slow and painful death.

 

There is another problem that CoD has since ages and zombies now has as well:

 

Oversaturation

[Spider3000]

18 hours ago, Lenne said:

Sorry HW, but if CoD is really dying it is a very slow and painful death.

I'd agree for the most part since CoD sees a general decline every year. However, Infinite Warfare's release was considered a disappointment to Activision, despite being the highest selling game of the year. I think Activision have started to realise that fans don't like the direction the game is going in, hence Sledgehammer announcing their next game would be boots on the ground.

 

 

18 hours ago, Lenne said:

There is another problem that CoD has since ages and zombies now has as well:

 

Oversaturation

Exactly. Zombies is a tried and tested formula, that we'll see every year now, instead of every three. Extinction's failure probably contributed to this, but regardless they'll milk Zombies to death instead of create new innovative modes. Very ironic, considering Zombies was created and became the success it was through innovation and taking chances.

[MysteryMachineX]

I agree that dying is not quite the accurate word. Recession I think is more likely. A franchise this big is really too big to let fail. Whatever goes wrong will continue to go wrong until someone realizes to "fix" things, whatever that may be. It's kinda like an economy, recessions and growths. Battlefield did something different because they had to do so to grow, and it paid off.

 

While the arguments that people get tired of too much zombies, too much DLC, too much Call of Duty, or too much hype, and that non-Treyarch zombies are just uninspired are true at least to an extent, I think what has really demotivated much of the community is the lack of resolution in the main Zombies, Treyarch zombies. Revelations seems across the board a huge letdown in the storyline. Many who put energy into understanding the story feel they were ripped off or wasted their time. The big twist was that there was no twist. I think the way Treyarch ended their series didn't matter for them. Games these days often have crappy endings because consumers don't pay for endings. By the time you find out the end, 99% of the consumer base has already paid for the game. Treyarch's bottom line wasn't affected. BUT, the consumers are still spurned, and that is having an effect on the poor sap who tries to sell his or her zombie game next, i.e. Infinity Ward.

 

I'd also like to address InfestLithium's categories. Having been here quite a while, I can't help but feel a category should be included for burned-out fans. I've known many, many die-hard fans, be them of gameplay or story, who after a while just can't keep up. There's so many reasons for doing so. They feel they've lost touch with where the franchise is going. They find the cost of doing so prohibitive. They have better things to do with their time.

 

And that leads me to my last point. We shouldn't ask if zombies is dying, but rather, are zombie fans dying? A bit of tongue-and-cheek there, but I'm somewhat serious. While I don't have the data on this, I'm willing to say the demographic that Call of Duty, and to a narrower extent, Zombies, appeals to are males approximately thirteen to thirty. World at War was released in 2008. Many, many fans are young teenagers, and many have had to move on in their lives. It's why I see so many people come and go, because they leave high school, they go to college, they get a job, they get married, they have kids, and some, yes, even some, die.

 

The die-hard fans that have been holding the game up are continually decreasing in number because time inexorably moves forward, and more and more of us decide there's only so much time, money, and resources we can devote to a game. With any product, this will eventually be an issue. But the resources it takes to play zombies to its full potential, the code breaking, the story analyzing, the committing to five-hour games just to beat a level, I believe take a toll on even the most intense supporters that contributes to this franchise having a higher burnout rate than any other non-MOBA franchise I know.

 

The solution is to bring in new die-hard fans as fast as you lose them, but that just isn't happening. It isn't because the story is too complex for them to understand. It's because the storyTELLING is too obtuse for any sane person to understand. Until they can overcome this issue, I think Zombies is just going to be relegated to a just-for-fun game-mode tagged onto the yearly Call of Duty game, rather than the serious historically-inspired, ideaologically-thrilling, discussion-provoking game that we knew it to be, in its simpler days, when we dreamed of it becoming something big. Well, it's big now, but big like a balloon, with little substance underneath. And well, balloons pop.

[Slade]

We're just tired of this shit at this point.

Tired of a certain someone hyping the shit out of the final chapter (again!) like

"it's called Revelations because there's going to be so many Revelations!"

"Oh wow, really?"

"Why, yes!"

 We're gonna have revelations regarding the rich detailed story, the totally-not-Richtofen bald man from Ascension.

Oh and the Origins Staffs ! yes they play a HUGE ROLE IN REVELATIONS wink wink ; )

And let's not forget

 

"Hey. Revelations is almost out on PC and Xbox and everyone's been going crazy about this Super Easter Egg alternative cutscene. So let's take the SoE intro, encrypt it for no reason, re-name it to zm_genesis and add it in the patch just to fuck with them!"
"But sir, no one liked the ending to begin with. Won't that just piss off them off even more, you know - our community?"
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Hells Warrrior]

It's dying, why. Wash, rinse, repeat and yes it's a slow death.

It has to and needs to change, that's AW, BOIII and now IW that have been huge let downs.

Sales are generally OK but sales don't necessarily mean success. Sure the bottom dollar is what counts but if you continue to piss of the players (which has been seen for the past 3 years by shown them contempt) the franchise will ultimately fail.


Sent from my iPhone using Call of Duty Zombies mobile app

[DeathBringerZen]

I'm not sure about it dying exactly. I mean, with Infinite Warfare having a zombie mode now it seems to be very much alive but the game-mode itself has evolved into a child friendly, clutch ridden mess when compared to the WaW/BO1 days. Micro-transactions now play a major role, offering kids and idiots with money the chance to gamble with RNG mechanics in the hope of making an easy game-mode easier. Earning LD in-game is a slow process designed to temp the player into parting with their cash, especially when the developers decide to abandon the creation of new perk machines and lock many possible perk ideas behind the gumballs instead. 

 

The whole game-mode aspect has changed as well. BO3 zombies is ridiculously easy and that is one of the reasons I gave up playing. There is no challenge for the skilled veterans. I got to round 88 on my first solo game of Revelations and haven't played it since. The normally replayable EE's from older games have been replaced with these unrewarding and ultimately kinda pointless EE's that aren't even that fun to do. Zombies for me has become a YouTube friendly game-mode now being marketed exclusively for a young audience and I can't see it ever reverting back so I can't see me getting back into it. Gave IW zombies a try but after playing the first map I'm not investing in any of the DLC. Will see what Sledgehammer can come up with before passing judgement on their next attempt.

[Matuzz]

Custom Zombies are alive and well and will be for years. But for me zombies story and these spin offs are boring. That being said I'm building a new rig and will be checking out the Black Ops III custom zombies scene.

[Inconcievable]

When I think of an answer regarding the death of Zombies or its community, I can sometimes find myself hard-pressed. Like... before typing this statement, I wanted to say "yeah, Zombies is dying, and it kind of has been for a while now", but I knew the statement would be poorly founded and partially wrong.

 

In reality, there is certainly a diminishing amount of activity within the community, and as such, it can seem as though the whole of Zombies was dying due to this.

 

Honestly. Whatever way we equate it, or whatever way we explain it, I think every single person that plays and follows Zombies knows that they are part of a greater machine. Every member of any type of forum or even a Skype chat knows they are part of something... that something being the community. We all probably feel as though we are a part of a force that, when large enough, can help shape the next chapter within Zombies. Treyarch knows this well.

 

The problem is that Zombies is growing less unique. World At War brought in the damn mode, and, y'know what? It was cool! It was interesting and unique. Those that had followed it then knew that it was something good, and it gained such a following as a result. People wanted Zombies because it was a refreshing fix to a game series that had naught but a repetitive Multiplayer and a Campaign that, while they mostly were alright, were repetitive after excessive play (honestly, that's how I got bored of Call of Duty 3's Campaign... and I loved it to death!).

 

When Treyarch brought back Zombies for Black Ops 1, they understood exactly where they wanted to go with it, and the way they reintroduced it/gifted it to us was exciting and... overall, fun. Zombies was mainstream now, and Zombies was important. Then Black Ops II came along two years later, and... you just can't tell me you believe that Zombies was as strong as it was. Zombies was still somewhat strong during the tenure of BOII, sure, but with maps like TranZit and Buried, there was a sense of both repetition and negativity.

 

After Black Ops II... everyone knows the story. Exo Zombies came out and a lot of people did not care too much. It was not a popular mode to any degree, and the only reason we received it was because the community wanted it. Exo Zombies played itself as a cog that would contribute to the gradual decline.

Then Black Ops III... and IW Zombies.

 

I think we know that each company producing CoD is trying really hard. They want to keep their community stable and active by giving us what they want to believe is a unique experience. No doubt, Black Ops III was unique in comparison to its predecessors, but we know it wasn't the same anymore. The same can be said for Infinite Warfare Zombies... hell, I already stated that it felt like the same thing before. I made a post about the game as a whole and denoted the facts regarding it. I don't hate IW Zombies at all, I just think it's repetition. Again.

 

But, honestly, at this point I feel like I'm rambling.

 

Is Zombies dying?

Well, you have to ask yourself: What IS Zombies to you? The community and the game? The community? The game? If you ask me, I do think that Zombies is dying... but not yet. I think Zombies is something that will either die with Sledgehammer's next installment to the series, or Treyarch's... though, to be fair, I think Treyarch knows it's dying either way... so they'll hopefully be smart in regards to it.

 

Zombies really only lives with the community, anyhow. If we die, it dies. But blah blah I've written on too long.