Overpowered specialist weapons

[jiipee95]

This started to bother me about the game tbh. At first they were fun to try out of course, and they're still fun to use, but they're way too powerful in my opinion. You pretty much have a Wonder Weapon from the beginning of the game. Yes you have to charge it between uses, but the thing is that it doesn't take a long time. In addition to that you have an elixer and a perk that make the recharge rate faster. And full power powerup. 

 

I would very much like if you'd rather get it from the mystery box than from the start of the game. But I don't think they will change that. Other possible fix could be nerfing the recharge rate greatly, but I doubt that will be a thing either.

 

What are your thoughts about the specialist weapons? Are they good as they are or would you like some changes to be made?

[Lenne]

21 minutes ago, jiipee95 said:

What are your thoughts about the specialist weapons? Are they good as they are or would you like some changes to be made?

I somewhat agree they are a bit too good especially when you concider you have to do nothing but use them to level them up. I suggest just having them be used once per round.

 

But I like how fun they are to use.

[jiipee95]

3 minutes ago, Lenne said:

I somewhat agree they are a bit too good especially when you concider you have to do nothing but use them to level them up. I suggest just having them be used once per round.

 

But I like how fun they are to use.

I like how fun they are too yeah, but I was playing 2 player camping strategy yesterday and pretty much almost all the time other one of us had the specialist weapon ready for use. 

[ZombiesIsKey]

The only reason we get to Specialist Weapon right off and how powerfull it is, is due to not having our usual Jugg/Speed Cola etc. Blundell mentioned this in an interview where he spoke about removing certain perks and why. He mentioned that the Specialist Weapons were made to be used as something new and also a break free if you found yourself in trouble due to not having as much health or reload times.

 

I see where you guys are coming from, I think it is very OP. I mean, I can be on round 80 and still 1 hit zombies with the Katana. But, they are fun to use and also something new so I can't really complain. Would be nice for us to need to work to get them. I mean sheesh, I need to do a mini EE on Classified to get the Winters Fury which I know I could technically get from the box but still - It doesnt even do good at round 50.

 

I still can't deny, I love the game!

[jiipee95]

39 minutes ago, Blurryface said:

The only reason we get to Specialist Weapon right off and how powerfull it is, is due to not having our usual Jugg/Speed Cola etc. Blundell mentioned this in an interview where he spoke about removing certain perks and why. He mentioned that the Specialist Weapons were made to be used as something new and also a break free if you found yourself in trouble due to not having as much health or reload times.

 

I see where you guys are coming from, I think it is very OP. I mean, I can be on round 80 and still 1 hit zombies with the Katana. But, they are fun to use and also something new so I can't really complain. Would be nice for us to need to work to get them. I mean sheesh, I need to do a mini EE on Classified to get the Winters Fury which I know I could technically get from the box but still - It doesnt even do good at round 50.

 

I still can't deny, I love the game!

But now you have a default Juggernog which makes the other features that already compensated for it OP. I'm not trying to hate on thr specialist weapons cause I like them, I just think the execution could have been better.

[ZombiesIsKey]

23 minutes ago, jiipee95 said:

But now you have a default Juggernog which makes the other features that already compensated for it OP. I'm not trying to hate on thr specialist weapons cause I like them, I just think the execution could have been better.

Yeah well this was before they buffed the health even more lmao. Still find it way too OP

[Electric Jesus]

I think the purpose of spawning with a wonder weapon is to reduce the barrier to entry for new players. Part of the “emotional” appeal of Zombies is that you always start each game as the ultimate underdog, frantic and overwhelmed, and you gradually build up to being a walking god, decked with wonder weapons and such. but think about what it takes to get to that point on just about any recent map. 

 

Like in Origins, Mob, and just about every black ops 3 map, getting to that point of feeling like a god takes an hour of doing tasks that require very specific map knowledge. Not to mention the many more hours it took you to figure that stuff out. I think Shadows of Evil was the worst offender in that regard. Still a great map, but most first time players aren’t going to get to experience the BEST feeling zombies has to offer.

 

I think the compromise they tried to go with was giving the player a reasonably powerful weapon to start with, that in theory gets stronger in pace with you. I think that’s a good idea, but frankly they do have some obvious problems with how OP they are. 

 

Ok, so it’s kinda ridiculous that by round 3 you can have reliable access to a weapon that powerful. That’s the problem with the fast cool-down; it’s consistently there to get you out of trouble. Like the Shadow of Death move on Takeo’s katana, basically a much more powerful version of Dying Wish+, but it’s free and recharges 10x as fast, and you can pull it out on command. Wat. 

 

I honestly think if they doubled the cooldown time, that would be good. that would reduce how often you can pull it out, so you don’t rely on it, you don’t get it as early, and you don’t get to the stupidly OP final form as quickly. 

 

All that being said, I think that’s all valid criticism on paper, but my actual experience of the weapons has been really fun, I gotta say. 

[ZombiesIsKey]

27 minutes ago, Electric Jesus said:

I think the purpose of spawning with a wonder weapon is to reduce the barrier to entry for new players. Part of the “emotional” appeal of Zombies is that you always start each game as the ultimate underdog, frantic and overwhelmed, and you gradually build up to being a walking god, decked with wonder weapons and such. but think about what it takes to get to that point on just about any recent map. 

 

Like in Origins, Mob, and just about every black ops 3 map, getting to that point of feeling like a god takes an hour of doing tasks that require very specific map knowledge. Not to mention the many more hours it took you to figure that stuff out. I think Shadows of Evil was the worst offender in that regard. Still a great map, but most first time players aren’t going to get to experience the BEST feeling zombies has to offer.

 

I think the compromise they tried to go with was giving the player a reasonably powerful weapon to start with, that in theory gets stronger in pace with you. I think that’s a good idea, but frankly they do have some obvious problems with how OP they are. 

 

Ok, so it’s kinda ridiculous that by round 3 you can have reliable access to a weapon that powerful. That’s the problem with the fast cool-down; it’s consistently there to get you out of trouble. Like the Shadow of Death move on Takeo’s katana, basically a much more powerful version of Dying Wish+, but it’s free and recharges 10x as fast, and you can pull it out on command. Wat. 

 

I honestly think if they doubled the cooldown time, that would be good. that would reduce how often you can pull it out, so you don’t rely on it, you don’t get it as early, and you don’t get to the stupidly OP final form as quickly. 

 

All that being said, I think that’s all valid criticism on paper, but my actual experience of the weapons has been really fun, I gotta say. 

It is exactly that. To make the game easier for new comers. But they could add a longer cooldown on the other difficulty levels where players who play the game on casual get the special weapons much faster but if you play on normal or hard, the cooldown time is extended much longer.

[83457]

I think Electric Jesus really said it.

 

I feel like this is a new zombie game, not Nazi Zombies. While I'm enjoying it, the fun factor is very limited in BO4 zombies, especially after playing BO3.

 

BO4 is a zombies running game from the very earliest rounds and that's all. (Yawn).

 

Despite the really great tweeks to game mechanics, the actual gameplay and replay value is fairly low. They pretty much deleted solo camping, and made it very noob unfriendly...so toss them kiddies some super powerful wonder weapons from start and everything is fine, right? (Facepalm).

 

In the end, is BO4 fun like this? I'd say minimally yes, but in a BO1 kind of way; You will strive to best the maps, then you'll likely shelve BO4 due to low replay value (just like BO1) and go play WaW or BO3 or some other reliably fun zombies with replay value.

 

Right now, I have the 3 start maps and they all feel almost exactly alike while playing (though VotD seems to be able to piss me off more than the others). That's not cool.

 

So, I think Treyarch well...Treyarched. They built a version of zombies that only resonates with a small faction of the zombie community, then tried to backtrack by giving super weapons at start and boosting health.

 

They should just go back to what originally worked so well and weed out the designers that think like BO1/BO4. 'Simple but fun' will grow the zombie community, 'annoying instead of fun' is not a good design track to take, and it looks bad when you have to try to throw bones to your waning audience to keep them (which then pisses off the tiny microcosm that you actually did build the game for).

 

My advice to them would be to keep the change in mechanics, but go back to camp spots and small maps where randoms can just 'click' in a match without mics. Stop hiding paths around corners, making little (below sight line) objects to get stuck on, refuse to add annoyances to the map (like Skippy on Moon, George on CotD, stupid shit like that that only detracts from the fun for normal humans).

 

Maybe, each DLC, 1 big "youtuber" map with too much busywork and annoyance and everyone runs circles to 100 or they vomit, whichever comes first, and 1 or 2 small maps with camp areas, a couple perks, few doors, a couple training areas, and a ?box location that never moves. I can tell you right now that those small maps will be loved more than the next amalgamated monster Trollarch troll map would be.

 

/my opinion, and listening to countless randoms and friends in games speak theirs. Everyone wants WaW 2.0, so why did we end up with BO4? That's the question that Treyarch needs to ask themselves. Don't build zombies for youtubers, listen to the bulk of players if you want a product that really sells. That's just good business sense.

[JJMFP]

A  much longer cool down would be an easy fix.  I cannot see why it couldn't be done.  Cooling it down to something like three times longer would make you think twice before just using it willy nilly.  I am sure there are going to be more game adjustments in the future.