Why the Apothicans look Lovecraftian

[anonymous]

The tentacles of the Apothicans aren't really 'tentacles'. It's more that they're pieces of the being floating in and out of dimensions and that our mind can only comprehend them as tentacles. Carl Sagan's 'Flatland' describes this phenomenon fairly well.

 

In it he explains how a third dimension is not only inconceivable but impossible to perceive by the two-dimensional senses of the inhabitants of the flat land. When a 3D being enters the 2D realm, any 2D, which he calls Flatlander, can perceive only one layer of the 3D being, changing as it enters the 2D realm further. Here are videos of certain 3D fruits (starfruit, garlic, banana), going through a 2D layer (so you can see it as some kind of stop motion film of the intersection of the fruits). Notice how similar these things look like typical Apothican traits such as tentacles and multiple eyes.

The same applies to the 4th dimension and the visualization of tesseracts and fourth-dimensional beings and how we, three-dimensional mortals, can’t imagine it but we can understand and visualize its projection in our reality. Multiple religions and cultures across the world fit with the idea of their gods being impossible to perceive, while they are always there. Here follows a Biblical verse fitting well with that idea:

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1 Cor 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Back to the Flatland Theory, imagine a 3-dimensional being 'floating' above the 2D Flatland, and it speaks to a 2D Flatlander without entering the 2D realm (so it hangs above the Flatland in the y-axis). The 2D being cannot observe the 3D being, but it will hear him like a voice from within himself. This reminded me of how our characters hear extradimensional voices from the Shadowman, Doctor Monty, MPD Richthofen, MPD Samantha and Maxis (whose soul has merged with electricity).

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Do you have ANY idea how difficult that is to keep track of? I may be omnipotent, but I can't be everywhere. - Doctor Monty

I wonder however, how the MPD can be an entrance to a higher dimension for a physical 3D being. I know that electromagneticy is the interaction of multiple dimensions on each other, so the key might lay there. We also have the extradimensional Keepers looking pretty humanoid, but I'm gonna guess that these creatures, as they are sentient and highly intelligent, have some kind of way to travel between dimensions are keep a normal form. Leave your thoughts!

[Mattzs]

Really fascinating stuff!

 

I love the theology/mythology connection too. I have always liked the idea that something like God would dwell in the highest dimension or above all dimensions.  Lovecraft had a similar concept too; the paradox of trying to conceive the inconceivable. 

 

This definitely accounts for the Apothicon’s telepathy. They are able to send thoughts (as electrical impulses?) from a higher dimension into a 3d plane. It would explain the disembodied voices seemingly coming out of nowhere. We are essentially listening to higher dimensional radio.

 

On a  side note, this made me wonder.

We can only see the fruit’s layers from that perspective because we are 3 dimensional, right? A flatlander would have to be on top of or above the fruit to see this exact image. If I understand this correctly, that should not be possible. Flatlanders can only perceive in x and y, and not z. That dimension lacks z entirely. 

 

The layers visible to them would be completely different from the layers we see within the images. Those images are just demonstrations. 

 

 

 

P.S.

 In some interpretations of the Abrahamic Religions, angels are described in a similar manner; beings of great light and or no coherent form.

[anonymous]

34 minutes ago, Mattzs said:

On a  side note, this made me wonder.

We can only see the fruit’s layers from that perspective because we are 3 dimensional, right? A flatlander would have to be on top of or above the fruit to see this exact image. If I understand this correctly, that should not be possible. Flatlanders can only perceive in x and y, and not z. That dimension lacks z entirely. 

 

The layers visible to them would be completely different from the layers we see within the images. Those images are just demonstrations. 

How do you mean? I see Flatlanders as beings in the x- and z- direction, but yeah, x- and y- would also be possible. X- and z- is easier to visualize for me, but in essence it doesn't matter.

(Sorry for the low resolution) The square on table is the flat house of the red, square flatlander sitting inside. It can only perceive in the z- and x- directions. The apple is a being from a higher dimension, and finds himself in the y- direction, a 3th dimension. When the apple "goes through" the 2D house, the Flatlander can only see that 2D layer of the 3D apple that goes through the 2D plane. 

 

Thank you for the good thoughts! I am specifically interested in how electromagneticy seems to be connected with Higher Beings. I imagine this kinda like the ending of Interstellar, where the main character finds himself in a 4D tesseract where he can manipulate the lower dimension. 

41 minutes ago, Mattzs said:

P.S.

 In some interpretations of the Abrahamic Religions, angels are described in a similar manner; beings of great light and or no coherent form.

Love these real-life connections! Maybe thats how a Keeper in the 4th dimension looks like, or it are higher overlord-like beings that are served by the 3D Keepers.

[Electric Jesus]

One idea that has occurred to me is this: 

 

imagine you’re a fish in a fish bowl, and your entire universe is that water, and you can’t see anything above the surface of the water. Then, a human dips four fingertips into the water. As the fish, you’ll go “oh hey, four separate fleshy-ball-creatures are descending into my world.” Because from the fish’s vantage point, it can’t see that the fingers are all connected to the same hand above the surface.
 

what with all of Monty’s talk on revelations about Ducks and Worms, I suspected that he and the Shadowman were just two separate “fingers” on the same hand, protruding independently into our realm. 
 

 

[anonymous]

6 minutes ago, Electric Jesus said:

One idea that has occurred to me is this: 

 

imagine you’re a fish in a fish bowl, and your entire universe is that water, and you can’t see anything above the surface of the water. Then, a human dips four fingertips into the water. As the fish, you’ll go “oh hey, four separate fleshy-ball-creatures are descending into my world.” Because from the fish’s vantage point, it can’t see that the fingers are all connected to the same hand above the surface.
 

what with all of Monty’s talk on revelations about Ducks and Worms, I suspected that he and the Shadowman were just two separate “fingers” on the same hand, protruding independently into our realm. 
 

 

EJ, man, you deserve being member of the Hall of Fame even if it were only for your metaphores always. It's certainly an interesting concept, as the Keepers and Apothicans would be from a higher dimension (above the fish bowl) but yet in the same, perceivable, 3D dimension. Your idea about Monty and the Shadowman being fingers from the same hand reminds me of @ProjectKMR's recent post about who controls the Keepers and the Apothicans. We've heard the Shadowman speaking about 'Overlords', and I wonder if this are the more-important, universe-consuming Apothicans (similar to the Silver Surfer-Earth Eater relationship) or if the Apothicans truly serve higher beings, connected to the Dark Aethereal plane

[Electric Jesus]

A couple tidbits to keep in mind:

 

here are a couple ciphers from Shadows of Evil.

 

“The elders will continue to seed space and time. I must lead them to the place they cannot see.” 
 

this could reasonably be written by the Shadowman. 
 

“M is interested in these worthless"beings. All his work will be undone. X” 

 

This could also be the Shadowman, but it appears to be signed by X. 
 

a couple more facts to bear in mind, back around Zetsubou / Gorod era, mrroflwaffles had a couple of Q&A sessions with Jason Blundell. Jason just said “pass” to 90% of the questions that would “confirm” major story points, but he did actually elaborate on some apothicon stuff. 
 

Milo asked at one point “Do the Overlords mentioned in shadows of evil control the Margwas?” Jason gave a long pause and then said “yes.” 
 

Obviously “Control” could just mean “command” in this context, but it might be more literal too. 
 

going back to flatland and the fishbowl, think of it this way. 
 

maybe when we see a margwa “appear out of thin air” and then subsequently teleport around, we’re actually seeing an Elder God stick his finger into our fishbowl, so to speak. And when the margwa teleports towards you, thats just the eldergod retracting its finger from the bowl and re-inserting it into the water closer to you. Like a kid trying to poke a fish. 
 

Anyway, i think we can be reasonably sure that the Giant squiddy guys from Revelations are the beings that have interchangeably been called “overlords” “elders” and “elder gods.” There’s even a drawing of one in the ship in Tag der Toten. Here’s a thumbnail I lifted from youtube, sorry I don’t have a better pic. 
 

 

edit: one can only hope Jason and Craig are as crazy as I am

[Mattzs]

16 hours ago, anonymous said:

How do you mean? I see Flatlanders as beings in the x- and z- direction, but yeah, x- and y- would also be possible. X- and z- is easier to visualize for me, but in essence it doesn't matter.

(Sorry for the low resolution) The square on table is the flat house of the red, square flatlander sitting inside. It can only perceive in the z- and x- directions. The apple is a being from a higher dimension, and finds himself in the y- direction, a 3th dimension. When the apple "goes through" the 2D house, the Flatlander can only see that 2D layer of the 3D apple that goes through the 2D plane. 

 

Thank you for the good thoughts! I am specifically interested in how electromagneticy seems to be connected with Higher Beings. I imagine this kinda like the ending of Interstellar, where the main character finds himself in a 4D tesseract where he can manipulate the lower dimension. 

Love these real-life connections! Maybe thats how a Keeper in the 4th dimension looks like, or it are higher overlord-like beings that are served by the 3D Keepers.

Yeah, it is all confusing.  A flatlander wouldn’t be able to properly discern shape because of lack of height, right? The world should just be a series of lines to them, I think.

 

My guess is that electromagnetism is the closest conceptually to older beliefs about energy, leylines, and psychic ability. Like we mentioned in your leylines thread, electromagnetism can be found in Mesmerism and Glavanism (I think too). It adds a sense of scientific legitimacy to older occult ideas.

 

Science of the late nineteenth and early-mid twentieth centuries provided ample knowledge of the Electromagnetic spectrum. It makes sense that an occultist would associate it with physic waves and aliens. After all, the brain communicates through a series of neurons.

[anonymous]

Yes, the Margwas and any other Apothican "ground troops" are merely the monkeys. We can only theorize what the organ grinder, or Elders, are.